Would you allow something like this?
5 years ago
Washington, USA
EmeraldAly
She/Her, They/Them
5 years ago

(community for the game is dead/nonexistent, plus it's a general question anyway)

So I'm gonna pick up Nihilumbra as a run. The main gameplay mechanic in that game involves spreading colours on the ground to give various platforming effects (blue makes you run faster, green makes you bounce higher, red burns enemies/objects/you).

Many times quick switches between colours are necessary -- and certainly would be in a speedrun. The way the game shows you to switch colours is to click on the colour icon in the top-right corner of the screen and click on a different colour that shows in a little tree. This takes 2 or 3 seconds everytime.

There is a faster way; you can cycle through the colours with the mouse wheel (the game never actually tells you this, though).

What I was wondering is if it could/should be allowed for me to take my gaming mouse, with its six additional buttons, and (assuming I even could do this) assign a colour to each one. There's no option in the game itself to remap controls, I would have to use my mouse's software for this.

My gut reaction is something like this should not be allowed, since you're not doing it in the game itself, but what do you think?

Australia

I would not allow it, since it creates an uneven playing field for the players.

Scotland

Yeah I'd say since you'd be using outside software to influence the game it's a no-go

France
xDrHellx
He/Him, It/Its
5 years ago

Imo that shouldn't be allowed, unfair advantage, also if you can't do this via the game's settings then it's even worse.

Antarctica

Kind of echoing the same sentiments as everyone else, but since it would require external software, I wouldn’t allow it.

If it's 1 button for multiple inputs, then it's a macro.

If you're simply reassigning a key to a mouse button, even if it requires software, then there's much more room for debate.

Cuttyflame likes this
England

The fact that you're using an external tool to facilitate this is the only thing that steers me towards a "No", otherwise I'd be in favour of something like this.

Canada

A game I play allows you to modify key mappings inside of an INI file, which we use to map the dialog skip button to the mouse wheel (as well as another part of the game that requires button mashing). If the game has a way to modify keybindings through configuration files or something like that then that could be allowed (since everyone can do that), but what you've described creates a problem for anyone who doesn't have a "gaming" mouse.

Richmond, VA, USA

I think this falls under a similar umbrella to using turbo controllers for console speedruns.

Texas, USA

I love these kinds of questions, because their decisions create precedence. In other words, they become the examples we refer to later for similar problems later on down the road, so I'm going to take a moment to break this down:

From your description of the game, it sounds like there is very little RNG, which means that there will always be an "optimal path" for every run. This means that the fastest times will all follow the same path, but the BEST run will have the least amount of time between color changes. So if the best runs follow the same optimal path, the limiting factor will be how quickly you can change between colors.

Because color changes are the limiting factor, the problem emerges when the time saves are either made with methods that aren't available to everyone or done in such a way that fewer inputs are made to achieve the same result

That said, I'm going to go against the consensus on this one. I don't think it's unfair that your gaming mouse give you an advantage- if you want the top spot, it makes sense to invest in the proper hardware (see the Pokemon Stadium discussion on time saved by using a specific release here: https://www.speedrun.com/Speedrunning/thread/dw33g/1#1srqx)

However, I think you begin to cross the line when you use software to change mouse inputs to emulate different inputs. The precedent rule for banning Turbo Controllers is due to sending multiple inputs into the game with fewer manual inputs on the controller. Using software to map mouse inputs is very similar to this. I think I am summing up the responses above, but please correct me if I'm misinterpreting.

HOWEVER

Like @ShikenNuggets brought up earlier, the game has built-in responses to a mouse wheel, which means the game developers specifically added this response. Using controls that are built in shouldn't be banned, so if the game accepts inputs from a mouse wheel, it means the developers intended it to be played with a mouse wheel, and that should be fair game.

Edited by the author 5 years ago
TheGreatToddman likes this
Richmond, VA, USA

@oddtom You've made good points, and there are other games that do allow assigning inputs to different buttons, however the games I know of that do allow that have the in game capabilities to assign inputs. I'm not arguing against being able to use the wheel to play the game, my argument is against using external software to allow one to play the game faster (since he said he would have to use the mouse's software, not in game remapping).

Now alternatively, games that allow emulators obviously allow one to remap the keys to a different controller, and those functions are emulator(external from the game) enabled.

I'm with you Tom, this is an interesting situation, but I tend to lean towards not requiring anybody to have to invest anything other than their time to be competitive with speedruns.

oddtom and Casssss like this
England

"I'm with you Tom, this is an interesting situation, but I tend to lean towards not requiring anybody to have to invest anything other than their time to be competitive with speedruns."

Now this is something I tend to disagree with. I personally think this is something that people have been leaning more towards in recent years as speedrunning has gotten bigger, but I don't think the implication that people shouldn't have to spend money to get into speedrunning really has a basis. Speedrunning is a hobby just like any other, and hobbies simply cost money. Of course, there shouldn't be any barriers or obstacles that don't need to be there if it can be helped, but there are many cases where it just can't be helped. If you need to import a different region console/game to have the fastest version, that's what you've gotta do. If you need to buy an older revision that's relatively rare, that's what you've gotta do. Hell, I've invested in a UV flashlight for use with a game I intend to run in the future because the cartridge actually utilises solar power.

I understand the rationale behind wanting everyone to have equal access, but fundamentally speedrunning is not about equity or equality; it's about completing a game as fast as possible. If that requires methods that aren't equally accessible, then that's just how it sometimes is.

drgrumble, drybloxman and 4 others like this
Texas, USA

@Drakodan @TheGreatToddman

Can you show up to the Tour de France with a cheap mountain bike? Probably. Are you going to win? Not a chance. Does that mean we should we ban efficient road bikes from the competition?

Nobody is stopping anyone from racing- anyone can gather their group of friends and race their bikes- but competition at the top level of any sport that goes professional requires the proper equipment.

Edited by the author 5 years ago
Cuttyflame likes this
Richmond, VA, USA

I can understand your stance @Drakodan regarding faster console versions of games/flashlights for solar powered games (that sounds incredibly interesting, I'd like hear more about), but I feel like there's a definite difference between buying the faster (due to less text or something along those lines) version of an official game/ console and buying a piece of third party hardware/software that allows one to perform faster or more precise than a person without.

There are going to be gray areas in many circumstances of course, and every piece of hardware should go through it's own scrutiny.

Richmond, VA, USA

Tom, from that perspective PED's would be allowed since it's your option and risk to use them and nobody is going to prevent you from participating without using them. But there are rules in place that prevent people from using them even if they can afford/willing to because it gives one an unfair advantage over those who train without them. Just because something allows someone to perform faster doesn't mean one should be able to use it.

In this circumstance, it looks to me as if buying the Jap. version of the game (for instance) is comparable to the efficient road bikes, the software/hardware add on similar to PED's.

Edited by the author 5 years ago
drgrumble and Casssss like this