There's been some discussion in the discord regarding adding/removing other platforms to the SM64 leaderboards. I'm curious to see what everyone's thoughts are on this.
A few things that seem obvious:
PROS:
-Encourages competition. Version differences are a really unfortunate part of speedrunning in regards to competition. Competition has always been a huge, important part of SM64 speedrunning. Officially encouraging everyone to play on the same version will make the game more competitive and hopefully make players want to work harder to get better.
-Removes ambiguity. Lots of runners, especially from other communities, already see emulator and VC as being less legitimate than N64, and this would make that official. No more long explanations explaining how our leaderboards work.
-Removes clutter. The VC and EMU leaderboards simply do not have the same number of active runners that the N64 leaderboard does, and given past precedent of removing categories and denying iQue a place on the leaderboard based on lack of activity, it seems to follow that VC and EMU should also be removed. This will make the leaderboards much more streamlined and easier to understand for the casual speedrun fan.
CONS:
-Exclusionary. There's no doubt that many, many people get into speedrunning SM64 because of the availability of emulator, and without a leaderboard for that version this would possibly discourage new runners from picking up the game.
-Unfair to current runners. The status quo for the past several years has been that N64, VC, and emulator are all technically equal but separate versions, and that it is up to the individual player to decide which version they would prefer to play on. Many have decided to stick with emulator or VC. Removing the leaderboard that they have chosen to compete on (even if that competition isn't as tough as N64) doesn't seem to be fair to those players, who are every much a part of the community as the N64 players.
All opinions are welcomed and encouraged, but please be respectful.
I'd be fine with hiding by default, keeping them there for the people just getting into the game, perhaps.
Couldn't the leaderboards be mixed, but a cap off at a certain time for emulator/VC times? This would allow players to still be able to submit their times, but once they wish to optimize their time further they would have to either not submit or switch to console to start competing. This would stop the con of runners not being able to deep their feet into the game, and it would also support the pro of players being encouraged to compete on N64.
I would say as of now though, players get the hint that no one cares about emu/vc times, and if they wish to compete they go N64. So why not give them the choice? If they wish to be on a board that no one cares about let them make that choice, if they wish to compete and have times people care about they can do that as well. I don't think it disencourages console play very much, and banning it would lose us a lot of runners.
I don't like capping the time. If we have a leaderboard, it should be treated as being just as legitimate as the N64 leaderboard.
The problem with "giving them a choice" is that it inherently makes the competition weaker by dividing it. Now some players are just never going to switch to N64 no matter what, but many players claimed this back when we first separated the leaderboards, and N64 jumped from being the least popular version to by far the most popular. I feel as if we go the distance and finally just get rid of the other versions, we might see another jump, and that's only good for the competitive state of the game.
As Sicko pointed out in the discord, there's a cognitive dissonance in the way a lot of people who have stuck with emu and VC operate. They claim they only care about their own times, yet often they're frustrated that VC and emu are separated. If you only care about your own times, and comparing to other people makes no difference, then how we handle our leaderboards is irrelevant.
And if you do care about your competing with other runners, then there doesn't seem to be any reason to not just switch to N64 other than a monetary reason.
I'm also not convinced that we'd lose a lot of runners if we banned it. If players want to try out the game to see if they want to speedrun it, a change in the way we handle our leaderboards doesn't seem to make a difference. I can understand the argument for sure, but I'm not convinced that it's 100% accurate.
People posting things that aren't constructive to the discussion. :/
Leave everything the way it is. Cons outweigh any potential pros.
I agree that adding a cap instead could be harmful as the N64 leaderboard would thus be inaccurate with Emu/VC times even if they are capped. Not too sure about the numbers, I'm pretty sure 16 star emu is the most popular category, but as we all should know most of the times are one and done times. Though, it would be sad to see people unable to submit due to lacking a console, or feeling demotivated to learn the game after hearing about it. Its touchy because its good for the N64 standard, but there are downsides to forcing one platform when we have ~3 available. Would be nice to hear other's opinions.
I have mixed opinions, honestly. Because of that I feel leaving it as is, for now at least, is best. I'm not sure if this year is the time when this is needed. Maybe some time in the future I could see it happening.
Keep them man, people usually start on vc or emu just to see if they want to take it seriously to move to n64.... Then again u don't really need leader boards for that lol idk.
I would say leave as is. I don't know what 'hiding' means for this site, but keeping them on the side for people who want to see them is good. Kind of like how the Japanese LB does it.
I don't run SM64, but for whatever my opinion is worth as owner, I feel like the site should have a place for every run.
In the end it's up to the community though.
I think keeping them hidden by default is just fine, we pushed that N64 is standard for so long that removing them seems unnecessary. If new runners understand that there are time differences and want to compare to what people have done on the same platform they play then I think that's unfair to them to have that removed.
Besides, anyone who really starts to take the game seriously switches to N64.
In a perfect world I wish there wasn't VC or EMU and that other communities understood the integrity that comes from running the original version of the game, but I think what we have for this LB is a-okay.
As a person who runs VC, it is the only console I have currently. I don't have any interest in buying a N64. I do like to speedrun this game though, and i would be very upset if it was just taken away because it "clutters up" the leaderboards. I think many people like to start with it when they speed run, and I also believe that there are others that are in the same situation. I have no interest in buying an entirely new console just so I could speedrun a game that I had before. I understand that VC isn't as popular, but there are many people that play it, and making them switch to a new console, controller, and style just seems unfair.
We would like to announce that VC and EMU subcategories are now active on the Stage RTA leaderboards (under "Levels"). Stage RTA involves collecting all the stars in a given stage including the 100 coin star. Timing starts on star select and ends upon collecting the final star. You are allowed to us
