General Leaderboard Discussion Thread
5 years ago
Manitoba, Canada

the best way to fix that peck is to load the game get to the first cutscenes soft reset (hold l1r1 start) this should reduce the first load... but thats about it

California, USA

Ok. How about a battlegate run?

Is there any possibility that load remover would work with this game? I would really like to run this game but im running on base ps4 with hdd

Tennessee, USA

I'm in the same boat with a base Rev. 1 Xbox One. Load times aren't bad, but One X is MUCH faster...

Manitoba, Canada

Thoughts on the "you have to buy a pc to record so you must buy a ps4pro to compete" After having a bit of a heated discussion in Ninten's chat. I wrote this. This also includes some ranting about apparently some people think ps4 broadcasting is... not legit? something about time on screen being different????

Im going to attempt here to do this argument with logic on why consoles need to be split because of how heated i was earlier

I purchased a PS4 to play Persona 5 and the kingdom hearts series with the intention to buy and speedrun kh3. I did not purchase a pro due to the upwards of 300 dollar difference. KH3 and kh0.2 both run at different speeds and in fact shot locks act differently on 60fps. These changes alone should be enough to separate the boards.

The argument against Live broadcasts via the share button on ps4 to twitch tv is absolutely insane. ive never once seen my vods come out as different times then my livesplit i have running on my PC which i then upload those splits to splits.io

The other argument that well you spent money on your PC to run livesplit has to be actually intentionally gate keeping as there is no other reason you could have such a silly arguement. if you are a speedrunner you have a PC new or old, why? because of twitch.tv the 1 or 2 people who somehow dont have a PC but also wish to speedrun, probably have a phone... there are many phone timers you run im sure ONE OF THEM allows you to upload results infact i think there is a livesplit that works on phones

The runs are not comparable at all unless a load remover is developed and trying to compare a game of this length will stifle the communities growth people will naturally compare runners to the WR regardless of if its a fair comparison or not.

Also implying that because PS4 broadcasts can have skips in vods is a reason to invalidate any runs not on a capture card is actually one of the strangest things ive read on the internet.

also yeah okay the broadcast time might drift but i didnt realize real life drifted and time got lost thats weird i didnt realize i couldnt time the video or use an external timer....

Edited by the author 5 years ago
Indiana, USA

Any reason why it's kicking back my attempt to submit a run? It keeps saying the game hasn't been released, even though it has and I just did a run on the current patch?

Western Australia, Australia

@cannonballkuriboh The Moderation team decided on a 2 week embargo before allowing run submission on the game to be verified, this is to prevent fans from spoilers and to not rush people to speedrun the game right away.

Florida, USA

what about all lucky emblems as a category?

AxelSanGo, FredBananaz, and Hokakyo like this
Manitoba, Canada

Extension catagory/misc catagories ideas

All Lucky Emblems

Battlegate RTA (level 1 and level 99 varients)

Gummiphone 100 Percent? or i guess this is just JJ 100 percent for this game so main catagory

Level 1/no keyblade forge/level 1 magic/no equipment ? aka Low Percent?

Classic Kingdom RTA

Western Australia, Australia

Just want to throw out some of my own opinions on ideas of how I'd like to see the board. Things to quickly note yes I am a series moderator but my opinions will not be the final say in what happens, I would just like to get feedback on if my ideas are good one or need rethinking.

For starters my main concept as some know by now is simplicity, I am not a huge fan of separating every intricate difference for a speedgame. However logic needs to come into play if say the JP version was vastly different to ENG and was faster because of it I 100% understand a separation being required.

I vouch for the idea of having a tab on the side of runs on leaderboards showing if the runner ran with a HDD or SSD rather than building separate leaderboards for them. From some research I found buying an SSD for the game is only slightly more than what the actual game costs in retail I will leave some links as examples below. In the end if the community would prefer separate leaderboards I am 100% okay with that. Quick note I don't really have all the data to show how much faster an SSD is so only take this first point lightly since I could easily change my opinion.

https://pcpartpicker.com/product/XDdxFT/adata-xpg-sx850-128gb-25-solid-state-drive-ssd-sx850-128g https://pcpartpicker.com/product/6yKcCJ/samsung-860-evo-500gb-25-solid-state-drive-mz-76e500bam http://prntscr.com/mgi9ci

Second opinion is I believe we should ban DLC keyblades in its entirety, you may be asking why I would want that? My main reason is it would be the most unfair speedrun category to be competitive with due to the fact that majority of people did not buy the game 2/3 different ways to unlock every DLC keyblade, hey maybe someone did and if that's the case they would have the best advantage. Just for clarification (Amazon Keyblade = Fire/Xbox = Thunder/PS4 =Blizzard), I believe until they release the DLC in a separate purchase should we bother with a leaderboard for it so that way everyone can be on an even playing field for that specific category. The other plus to doing it (once again don't have a lot of data) but if hypothetically PS4 and Xbone were similar in speeds you could have it merged, where before you would have to structure it separately due to DLC reasons.

Lastly I imagine every console is different in terms of speed for loads and wont post what I overall believe should happen since once again don't have the data but keep this last point in consideration. A singular category lets use 'Any%' as our example right now on its template design has: PS4, Xbone | Beginner, Standard, Proud, Level 1 Beginner, Level 1 Standard, Level 1 Proud | No DLC, DLC, that is a total of 12 seperate leaderboards for just a singular console alone, now its easily possible to have a leaderboard for every console type but I worry that the spirit of competition could die when portions of the community are split apart into various different credentials. Hypothetically if we were to leave the design as it is now but have PS4, PS4 Slim, PS4 Pro, Xbox One, Xbox One S, Xbone One X, that would be a total of 72 different leaderboards for Any% alone, now obviously I strongly doubt it would come to that and i'm sure PS4 and Slim, Xbox One & S have probably no difference but just wanted to leave that info out there so the best decision can be made, I completely get the argument with the Pro and X. My question is if say the Pro and X was the same could we possible merge the 'Pro consoles' together and the 'Standards' together maybe? Love to hear feedback because like I said at the start I don't know a lot I just love simplistic designs whenever possible, hope everyone enjoying the game and keen to see what you guys do with it :)!

United States

I like the idea of banning dlc keyblades due to the fact that if you didn't preorder it with amazon, ps4, or xbox through the digital mean then you just are loosing time behind a preorder pay wall.

With the idea of making ppl put hdd over ssd i see no problem with that. Example of that done is done in FFXV leaderboard where the times are such a huge difference almost 40 min. Im not sure about the jp vs english.

Food for thought what would the jj 100% be over the true 100% because if we count the gummyphone as jj we would need to do all lucky emblems, all cooking, and synthesis to get all keyblades to do all shotlocks to get the game records done which means you need to do all the flans excellent and do the ice sled all treasures, defeat omgea in the gummy, get all the chest, do all mini games ect...... so im confused on the difrrence on what we will call true 100% or jj100%

North Carolina, USA

Agree with no DLC until they are available for purchase, otherwise its just an arbitrary "You happened to Pre-order the most optimal version of the game" category (Which even so it would just be very similar to no DLC most likely except you get a few minute advantage based on choosing the correct pre-order).

Also agree with not a million separations due to people wanting to have a separate leaderboard for their specific console setup. SSD/HDD is fine enough.

Also seen a lot of talk about how some people say IGT is accurate and some say it is not. This needs a lot more testing that probably won't be confirmed before embargo. For an example I monitor all my IGT against RTA. 4:15 RTA wound up with a 3:50 IGT and on the same setup a 4:13 RTA wound up with a 4:16 IGT. So I managed to apparently play the game in such a way that I time traveled. I've also had runs where RTA was within a minute but IGT was 5 minutes apart.

Edited by the author 5 years ago
United Kingdom

I also agree with currently having no dlc. Would it not be much easier to use the battle report time as the final time, games that have different load times on different consoles and SSD/HDD such as RE7 are done using the IGT shown at the end.

Antarctica

KH IGT is notoriously bad and not accurate at all. While that would require more testing for this game, I’d be willing to bet it’s just as bad here too meaning it won’t be able to be used for anything.

As for any separation, I say split by console but not by hard drive type. Hard drive type can be done using the filters, console splits make more sense and there’s no need to make even more mess by throwing in HDD type. 0.2 works fine with HDD through the filters (and filters are notoriously under used anyway).

United States
  1. Start at brightness confirmation seems most appropriate. Ending on beam feels best to me.

  2. No opinion.

  3. I feel that all content not available within the base game shouldn't be allowed. This includes pre-order bonuses as someone purchasing the game in the future won't have access to them.

  4. No opinion.

  5. Splitting up categories over hardware clutters the leaderboards tremendously and makes them look really messy. I also feel that it just feels weird to say "This person has the PS4 SSD Beginner Record" and "This person has the PS4 HDD Beginner Record!" "This person has the Pro HDD Beginner record!" etc, I think that outlines my point. It's so much clutter that it would look awful and put everyone into a little category of their own instead of having more people to compete against and aspire to achieve a faster time than. IMO the ideal setup is to have console type (PS4/Pro) and Hard Drive (HDD/SSD) as variables so it is noted on the leaderboards what hardware was used.

On a side note, if KH3 does see patches in the future which have an impact on the speedrun in some way, I feel it is best to require runs to be played on latest patch to be submitted.

Edit: I also think it's appropriate to start accepting runs on the leaderboards. We're past the point of the "day 1 WR memes" and people are doing actual runs now. It'd be nice to have a more public easily accessible record of who is running so I can follow runners and keep more up to date with what is happening with the run. It will only help advance things by making it easier to find runners to follow and communicate and share ideas with each other.

Edited by the author 5 years ago
AxelSanGo, Saiyanz, and Hokakyo like this
Manitoba, Canada

I mean Tim if you refuse to read any of the testing people have done in the last week on IGT then maybe you shouldn't jump in on that part of the discussion especially if you refuse to see it as a new game?

sorry but all signs point to accuracy.... if you would like i can go over the pros and cons.

Primary reason igt is so innacurate for kh1.5 2.5 is because IGT in older games is based on essentially a frame count in the system. for modern systems they count igt using either a system clock or a similar timer in the game that doesn't move/read during loads and out of the file areas (like in kh3 it seems to pause on the retry menu but NOT inside of the prepare sub menu) so this TECHNICALLY can be seen as an "advantage" but honestly you died. your run lost time redoing the future part

the MAJOR issue and the ONLY one i can see is dying outside of forced encounters does NOT trigger retry and DOES reset IGT this would mean deaths outside of forced fights/bosses would be a run ender. This isnt UNHEARD OF in modern games but it is one of the few downsides.

The other noted downsides is you can not say let the credits roll after killing xehanort, thankfully this game has a bit of a moment when you deal the last blow where you go through the trinity revive scene where you can have that pop off but no watching the credits after a sick WR. still these two downsides are HEAVILY countered by the game becoming more competative without forcing people to buy pros and honestly if you arent in favour of IGT to bring systems in closer parody then you should also be perfectly fine with DLC keyblades being in any%. I mean competative people will always want to spend tons of money right?

I beleive Jhobz and others on twitter went through a more extensive listing of up and downsides recently.

Edited by the author 5 years ago
RioPeace likes this
Antarctica

From the post literally 2 above mine from someone who’s done IGT testing a bunch with this game based on this thread:

[quote]For an example I monitor all my IGT against RTA. 4:15 RTA wound up with a 3:50 IGT and on the same setup a 4:13 RTA wound up with a 4:16 IGT. So I managed to apparently play the game in such a way that I time traveled. I've also had runs where RTA was within a minute but IGT was 5 minutes apart.[/quote]

Don’t tell me that I refuse to read anything, it’s not only wrong, it just plain stupid. I also wonder where you got that I don’t support using IGT. I said that it probably needs more testing to confirm if it’s accurate or not (which it absolutely does since some people are still finding inconsistencies). If it is, I don’t care if it’s used. I also said to split categories based on consoles and to use filters so people don’t have to spend tons of money to do runs. It’s almost like you didn’t read my post at all.

I don’t do random twitter searches for any info on this kinda stuff, I look here. So anything not posted here is irrelevant since this is the main place to discuss this stuff. Thanks for being an asshole though, I’d recommend doing some reading of your own before you give me a snarky answer next time. I don’t take kindly to it

Edited by the author 5 years ago
North Carolina, USA

On the IGT debate can we stop only conveniently quoting people that share the same opinion as others. As I have said some people have tested it and found inconsistencies some have tested it and found it consistent. The game has been out for everyone a week, it needs more testing. The more helpful solution would be for people to compile RTA/IGT/Any Deaths/Recording link to grab more data rather than saying "He agrees with me".

I don't think there is a person that disagrees an accurate IGT would be fantastic, lets just make sure IGT is accurate. It would be extremely disappointing if something were to be done just out of bias rather than testing.

Edited by the author 5 years ago
Timmiluvs likes this
United States

[quote=Xelnas] forcing people to buy pros [/quote]

Nobody is forcing anyone to buy a Pro. Pro is only going to be relevant to a small group of people who are pushing for top times. And as far as solid state, you can get an SSD for your PS4 for as low as $30 (half as much as you paid for the game.) possibly even lower depending on size and if you get it on sale, so I really just don't see money as a valid argument.

There is no correlation between not wanting to use IGT and not being in favor of the DLC keyblades. It's two entirely separate issues, that's not a good argument to make.

Also not to be nitpicky, but it's spelled "competitive". Not "competative".

As far as IGT goes, while my preference is real time, I'm not against using IGT only if it's 100% accurate and there is no way to abuse it.

United States

on the IGT vs RTA i believe we use both especially for top times and to settle placement disputes, b/c we know not everyone is going to use sub seconds.