Hi all,

We've been taking requests for ideas on growing our CE boards:

https://www.speedrun.com/re2remakece

The two most popular suggestions have been:

• Handgun only
• Knifeless

I've collected some feedback on Handgun Only on Discord previously, here's some ideas that were thrown out there:

• Only the default handgun (upgrades allowed)
• Only the default handgun - no upgrades (mainly seeing how Claire's SLS becomes a magnum)
• Allowing any regular handgun (no magnums) - disallowing upgrades.

I know @bearlol has been routing this, and someone on Discord mentioned attempting to run this on Hardcore previously to no success.

With that said, we would like to gather community feedback on this.

Would you like either of these two categories? If yes, what are your suggestions on rules?

I would personally lean towards allowing the two base handguns in 2nd scenario, and allowing Claire's JMB Hp3 -- simply because I feel like the 5 shot SLS only would kill a lot of interest in running Claire if it wasn't allowed.

In addition to these two categories, please let us know if you have any fun ideas for any other CE categories!

Thanks Cursed, sorry for being a pain in the ass.

Expansion on what was said above - For me, B Campaigns should have access to both handguns, since you can only craft normal handgun bullets I personally believe handgun upgrades are fine, but am open to discussing this. Claire having a Magnum tied in with her handgun offsets the fact that she gets a standard of 19 less bullets(After upgrades), and it's not like it is unfair, since everyone has the same playing ground - Birkin G1 fight will also be much longer for Claire, due to 5 bullet rounds.

Knife-less is self explanatory, for taking the category literally I have been not using knives as defensive items either.

Edit: I only tried hardcore once, but ran out of ammo on G2 - I can try again, standard is ammo tight as is.

I agree that 2nd campaigns should have access to both, for the same reason. If we allowed upgrades, then I think we should disallow using the JMB Hp3 to keep balance. Otherwise, if we banned them, it would be a lot more fair to allow Claire access to it (though this would give her an advantage over Leon).

We could also:

• Allow upgrades to the Mitilda
• Allow upgrades to the SLS 60 -- except for the frame upgrade (to become magnum)
• Allow Claire to use the JMB Hp3 to be more on par with the upgraded Mitilda (but then this gives Leon a slight advantage over Claire - )

Lots to discuss and sort out, haha.

bear, have you by chance tried running any of the campaigns on Hardcore? Is it even feasible to make it a category option?

I will do some research on Leon A and Claire A today on hardcore. For Claire I will save before doing the sewer to see the viability of killing G2 with and without the Magnum. When I tried Leon A, G2 felt like I didn't have enough ammo, however I firstly didn't pick up the Matilda stock, and 2ndly didn't pick up the large gunpowder in clock tower.

I think if you can pass G2 as Leon, there is a chance that it could work. I think G4 for Claire is probably impossible since he is a much larger ammo sponge than tyrant, but we'll see.

Edit: I actually haven't really even been considering the JMB Hp3. I'll pick that up as well and see how that works. I don't really care what direction we go with that gun.

My vote would go for knifeless category to not allow knifing anything, but still be usable as a defense item.

For Handgun only runs I've been playing no defense items - unfortunately this means that ivy's = you're dead. But they are generally pretty easy to avoid.

@KarmXify Even for Leon I have to loot every piece of usable gunpowder, that is sort of the point.

not sure, I'm going TRY to route it when I am home from work. - Last time I tried I ran out of Ammo on G2 (Hit him twice and he didn't die) Handgun Only is possibly a Standard Only run, but we haven't come up with set in stone rules yet, so your opinion is appreciated.

Hi! I posted the original thread with this idea. I vote for no knife on bosses or enemies, like Orchlon. The defense use is like RE Remake and doesn´t broke the game (you have limited uses and need to kill the enemy to recuperate the item). Even a slash on a zombie or others enemies doesn´t seems to be the problem (and stop to slash enemies is slower). I think that Capcom should patch that the knife damage is tied to fps, but for now, this category can be useful. PD: I don't understand why we have "True ending category" and not this.

I did a Claire A for testing on Hardcore. I managed to beat G3 with exclusively the handgun. HOWEVER I had about 10 bullets left, without either magnum, or grenades I can't see Hardcore CLAIRE A being doable. However, Leon A should be very possible. @CursedToast

Knifeless runs sound very interesting, actually.

I would love to run a handgun only/knifeless category.

Couldn't find a suitable place to post this (without creating a new topic), but I have a few suggestions of categories that I see missing.

Assisted Category - Like Standard and Hardcore, but with the imposed "aim-assist" and, ofc, no infinite ammo weapons as we already have "New Game +" for that. Main reason this is at the topn is because on RE.NET, Assisted run times are tracked in ones "Overview", but only those without use of infinite ammo. When I first started submitting runs here (@2-weeks ago), I thought that "New Game +" was for Assisted runs as that was all that was in them so I submitted runs that were at least 20 minutes higher due to not using infinite ammo. Once a friend told me that they were allowed, my times dropped below an hour. I still have those deemed "OBSOLETE" runs and would be able to post them right away, if this were added.

New Game + / Difficulty-Selection Category: I have noticed that there are a few runs in New Game + where someone attempted to do it on a higher difficulty. Their time was placed accordingly, but their place says "--". I'd like to see New Game + split into all three difficulties so that those wishing to complete on a harder difficulty can have their own sub-leaderboards.

Other Suggestions: (things that I am personally working on, but have no place to submit here) Hardcore(No Saving) Hardcore(No Damage) Hardcore(No Healing Items) Any.Diff.(Only Counterattacks) <-- Basically the "knife Only" category

I apologize if I have muddle things up by posting here, but do appreciate some criticism/comment-feedback as to the suggestions above.

BORDO

The category knifeless would be cool. See optimization for that going pretty far to be a main category honestly.

If we're doing knifeless, I'd say it should be true knifeless - not even for defense. This stresses management of flashbangs and frags (which are fewer in number and can only ever be used once each) for defense against enemies, and would make Claire runs, in particular, much more difficult since there are only... what, 11 frags in total and she needs 6 of em for G4 (and almost all of them are a time loss to pick up, too!) This is counterbalanced by the grenade launcher being hilariously overpowered compared to the shotgun in the early game - shotty doesn't even come close to matching GL until after the extended barrel upgrade halfway through the game (meanwhile GL stock is kiiiinda useless so that's 1 inventory slot more that Claire gets!)

Handgun only in HC seems too much like a challenge run to be a valid speedrun category - even while it's PROBABLY possible for Leon A to handle it, Claire absolutely cannot complete it due to the obscene amount of HP G4 has (or, rather, just how many fucking eyes you have to pop) and Leon B is probably not doable without using the rocket launcher on G5. Claire could handle G5 if the minigun were allowed, but she'd still have no realistic way to kill G4. While you don't necessarily have to use the frag spam strat against him to win, you're definitely expected to have an SMG and the minigun to pop the eyes with. Pistol works, but even if you had 500 ammo I'd actually be concerned about running out of time.

In regards to upgrades and such - yeah, absolutely. I'd say that Claire can use the .357 SLS or the Jp3, but cannot use both. To simplify things, I'd state it simply as: if you take the jp3 from the trunk, you are not allowed to get the reinforced frame upgrade for the SLS in the sewers. I'd apply this logic to Claire B, as well. The burst fire Matilda and jp3 are pretty competitive with each other, I feel.

I vote for Assisted on Handgun only (No defense items and no upgrades). G3 is a bullet sponge even on Standard with the handgun and the run have to be fun and not so super ”hardcore” so only a few runs it. Knifeless should be totaly knifeless. Only grenades and flash as defense items

/NuZ

I'm not sure assisted is the category we should go with for HG only, as is it would be more of a challenge type run, which is more niche. Playing on assisted would be no different than playing with the infinite handgun.

I don't feel like it has been overly difficult when running it.

However, Like PizzaShark said, Knifeless should be literal knifeless. Imagine at a GDQ if someone was running knifeless if somebody used a knife to stab a boss, or a zombie. He would get called out as hard as the Mirrors Edge guy running "Glitchless".

Edit: For those who are unaware of that situation --- https://www.reddit.com/r/cringe/comments/6lbjq8/guy_roast_mirrors_edge_speed_runner_sgdq_2017/

The point that sums it up the best is this: They're trying to make a point about how "glitchless" is a terrible name for what the category actually is, because the category isn't actually glitchless. The speedrunning community comes up with a lot of terrible names for categories, and they were trying to show that through comedy.

Using knifes for defense only also needs strategy and plaining on item pick up. The defense uses is not what brokes the game. But really, with or without defense uses, the knifeless category will be much interesting than the runs we have now.

I agree and disagree with bearlol. I ran Leon 1st HG only last night and I ended the run with 1 bullet left after Tyrant. It is defiantly a challenge, but that challenge might turn people off. Idk, either way I would run HG only and knifeless.

lol, I know what you mean Jadusable, the first time I completed it I had 0 bullets left. However I have a pretty good list of bullets to avoid and bullets to pick up at this point.

I wouldn't even be against a category that isn't handgun only but flat out eliminates the knife as both a self-defense item and a weapon for bosses. You'd have to bank the knife from Marvin immediately while the west shutter/gate is opening and then not pick up another knife for the rest of the game. When the game first came out I was excited about the prospect of trying different strategies for boss fights, different weapons, etc. We found out how incredibly powerful the knife was very early after the game's release and I always felt like it let us bypass a large part of the testing & strategizing when it came to the boss fights in the game. I don't dislike the knife being so powerful or anything but I've found it impossible not to wonder how the speedrunning communities approach to the game would've changed if the knife simply didn't exist in it's current form.

I'm not one of those people who like the idea of tons of different niche categories however with the knife being the way it is, a knifeless category is really intriguing to me.