no one trolled carci's chat, he wrote something to carci in his chat and saw he was permanently banned and we made good suggestions but the toxic people were being themselves and calling us retarded
@Carcinogen
Stop acting like I deliberately sent people on your stream dude. It's not my fault if some has seen that discord conversation where you make a psychologist analysis about me, then tell punchy to reject my run to "see how he reacts". Not my fault if some people who liked you, even donated to you are disappointed by your sly attitude.
Also +1 to Zenix Also @zenix, when I finally tried reaching through DMs I was already blocked. The thing that pissed me of, Succinct, is not the snooty remark you made about my layout (As you're trying to convince everyone that i'm mad because of that), I don't care about that, I made fun of it. It's your general behavior towards people on this forum that leads me to be a jokster on threads. And that from the beginning in February. By the posts from Succinct/FurryWulfz I saw in "PAL / US vs NTSC JPN version", I could already tell you were condescending, tbh. Furry unmodded himself now i'm not bringing him into that. My real problem isn't towards all moderators (as you're trying to make people think), it's just unfair and condescending treatments towards players that come in here to seek help/advice or to make suggestions, because Speedrun is about fun not demeaning people. I met wonderful people around here. Plus I've never been trolly/rude with other mods (I think, but as far as I remember, I only had interactions with CursedToast and Zenix, which were totally decent)
@succinct By the way. The only thing you ever did for that community is literally getting in the board that meme-DLC category that interested 10 people at most (including you). Also, a VR category was suggested and got simply ignore. When it came to help people or explain things, you usually use that "you dumb or what" undertone towards people. Not mentionning people asking for run-related help on discord, that got turned off by mods.
[quote]it was all a matter of clarifying the reason behind that rejection via this forum or DMs[/quote]
The rejection message for the first run was "Audio muted for last 3 minutes. Final verdict on this was Reject after I asked about it.".
This is pretty clear on what the rejection was for?
And to be honest, I think rejection for violation of Twitch ToS on grounds of harassment is a pretty decent reason for a rejection? It's a weird case, I know, because I've never seen someone willingly tie a run to something like that and I know speedrunning has major issues with self-policing its behaviour but there has to be a line drawn somewhere. Leaderboard inclusion isn't a right, especially when you go out of your way to cause grief to other users within the run itself.
@Succinct I'm fine with the first run rejected, I'm sorry for that, I put on some music after the run and somehow the twitch bot muted the last 3 minutes of the run. That's my fault, no problem on that.
For the second run tho. First reason of rejection was literally 
Then you came up with a seemingly legit reason; that "ToS" extrapolate thing.
Again, I'm sorry for my general behavior anyway. Childish/Trollish way wasn't the best way to deal with that. But still, problem is real with you Succinct, and overall with other mods' inactivity. (Except Zenix, who's always been around in the forum for all I know)
The whole thing just feels like some guys here love to act like professionals when it suits them
[quote]Should certain moderators start the witch-hunt on him?[/quote]
What? We've never started a witch-hunt on him. He's the one bringing his viewers in to harass us. I'm not having this shit turned around on me, he is absolutely not the victim here. I have never encouraged anyone I know to go after him or done anything untoward against him. I have openly stated a dislike of his general conduct, and that's an opinion I'm allowed to have. Game mods are not robots with no feelings and should not be treated as such.
[quote]Then you came up with a seemingly legit reason; that "ToS" extrapolate thing[/quote]
I had more time to think about it so I articulated my point better on the second reject. That's pretty normal. But like, the reasoning didn't change, I put that as the run reject mostly just to show that it wasn't solely my call, because you'd been accusing me of making these decisions unilaterally. Which I don't.
[quote]Rejecting a run because "it's harassment"? [/quote]
Is there really no line in the sand for you guys? Do you honestly think someone should be able to get away with being kind of absurdly, cartoonishly terrible? The run in question literally incites harassment against a specific individual. This isn't acceptable by Youtube or Twitch policies and it shouldn't be acceptable by ours either.
Like, I'm boggled you even think this is a questionable thing when it's literally condemned by the websites the run is uploaded to. All of the offsite harassment is terrible and stupid and petty but not sr.c business, but when it's being brought into the run itself, the line has to be drawn somewhere, you cannot seriously expect to keep doing this stuff and get away with it. In any half-decent community, this sort of stuff would just get you point-blank banned and then everyone would move on with their life, but because speedrun.com doesn't allow any such thing to happen without passing through the small staff team first, this has to be a serious discussion.
"HARASS", is not a word that should be used or "attack"
you need to look through that entire run again and tell everyone here when he said something among the lines of "go attack these assholes because i don't like them"
I stayed quiet on this issue for a while, simply for the reason i knew nothing would change at all with how the mods currently are.
The thing that really bothers me in all this though is what went on in the discord, "Oh its just the last 3 mins of the VOD? I'd say accept it" - Initial response from Carci, and the correct one. "Oh its him? Nah reject it and lets just see how he reacts". What? You can't reject a run if it's within the rules set. Plus the part where it was muted it'd be almost impossible to cheat on, i mean you can literally see there is no cuts or anything there.
And lets not forget Xerians run which had more muted audio and also music over it violating TWO of the rules set was accepted, the response for that was "Runs AFTER this one are now rejected if they have anything other than game and mic audio". If this was a serious issue in the past then why the hell wasnt it a defined rule from the start? It's like you just make up stuff as you go and dont think anything through at all.
Also Succinct, maybe if you didn't have such a condescending attitude towards everyone in that suggestion thread and were just like "I don't think that is a good idea, but i'll leave this open for further suggestions" , Instead of insulting Psarthex's layout and locking it you wouldn't have caused this chain of events.
I think, as a whole, harassment is not okay in any form. Speedrun.com needs solid community guidelines to prevent this sort of thing from happening again. You can't even make the argument that you were joking in your run. I'm sorry your run got rejected, but you wouldn't hire a bank robber to be a teller, would you? You're capable of hitting WR with this game, run it again, and cool your jets on the toxicity.
This comment has been redacted by the moderator team because it contained offensive slurs.
Personally I feel upon watching the VOD in question, that it's obviously harassment and even witch-hunting to an extent. (With no valid reason to do so, at that.)
I feel that if anything harassment, and witch hunting should be grounds for ban with no appeal. The speedrunning community is not and should not ever be a daycare center for manchildren who don't have the common decency as at least functional human beings to not harass/witch hunt one another especially on a VOD they plan to submit.
There's a thing called common sense. If you're not aware obviously if you do something to harass other runners/mods whatever there are, should, and will be consequences. I'm for one completely against harassment of any sort on submitted VODs, and I believe rules should be laid out to prevent such events in the future. Being honest I feel these things shouldn't happen in the first place, but unfortunately there are people that will go as low as to do such things. As evident by the VOD itself.
If you can't maintain a semblance of common decency to at least try and be somewhat professional then your VOD doesn't deserve a submission anywhere, at least as long as I've been involved in the speedrunning community (since I know this account has been created recently, my previous name was "Chemich.") That this kind of attitude and deplorable behavior being rewarded only encourages more of the same. It's time for the foot to stop being let in the door and just upgrade to a steel door and have that looming premonition of having your foot slammed in as a result of poor judgement, rules need to be made and especially considering they are against Twitch & Youtube TOS / Guidelines you'd think that such is enough to cause reason for rejection and even ban.
I'm just trying to fight against this behavior because in no way should it be allowed, or even considered acceptable. There are jokes, and then there are blatant attacks on individual's channels, and the individuals themselves. Maybe instead of refuting with the equivalent of: "it's just a prank bro!" - you maybe man up to your mistakes, and grow a pair? Because honestly the fact you even thought this was a good idea says a lot about your character to begin with. Just my two cents, at the very least.
Harrassments definition is kind of loose.
Can range from intense, and continued attention given to someone like stalking and so forth, or it can mean something as minor as a targeted form of annoyance.
Though I think arguing semantics of word choice would kind of be simply side-stepping the issue Gyoo wants to discuss. I mean, he did say he'd be reading these posts when he comes back from work. I doubt he'd wanna see 10-15 posts of people back and forthing over word choice.
@pervious I used the word "Hump" please. And oh my god, i'm not pleading 'innocent", I've said it on every post I wrote, I know I overreacted. I made fun of him. But I didn't start a witch hunt or anything I just made a meme-autistic-WR, so stop being hyperbolic, all the proofs are their tho. I literally screencapd everything, i'm not deleting stuff unlike Succinct/Carci, I fully assume all the things I said. But don't try to put other words in my mouth. Come on.
PS: That 'controversial part' is basically the last 20 minutes of the run where I'm asking Punchy to walk away from the moderation because it's not meant for people like him. (IMO) And yeah I called him a "prick" at one precise moment, sorry for that. WR adrenaline most likely.
It's either no one actually watched it or you're taking a "call out" for harassment and ToS violation. While Punchy is basically, according to your definition of harassment, violating Twitter ToS everytime he posts something related to me. ('Cause he has been tweeting disobliging stuff about me even before I started talking about him on my streams, so quit this nonsense)
As far as moderation goes, Punchy is good at it because like I said, he probably verifies the most runs in this game. Every other case I've seen him in, he does a really good job.
Besides verifying runs, a moderators job is really nothing else. It's not their job to take snide remarks towards themselves from runners, or anything else, really. When you're a decent person to Punchy, he is a decent person back to you. I know this because I think I first interacted with him in like... 2015 (?) when I began running Silent Hill and have never had an issue with him at all. Sometimes, we've disagreed on things, like the music rule was a massive disagreement he had (he saw no point for enforcement on audio strongly) whereas I saw the need for it. We had long discussions over these points in the discord most didn't see. All the discussions were in good taste.
When someone is being continuously hard to deal with however, it's obviously gonna build up. Whether you want to accept you have being a little hard to deal with at times, is your choice I guess, but a lot have kind of bit their tongue for a while now for the sake of keeping the peace. Punchy was simply the one who took the hit, so to say. His initial post in the thread regarding categories had, really, nothing wrong with it. It was direct, and to the point but there was really nothing wrong with Punchy's posts.
Everything after that thread, really, was a mistake. To be honest, the need for memes and call-outs like in that thread aren't necessary and highlight what I was saying earlier about hard to deal with. Despite it being a meme, it was, still, essentially a call-out on the mods and more specifically, Punchy himself. He verifies and takes time out of his day to help towards running this board. He doesn't get paid to do this. So when someone continuously makes low-key mocking posts towards these people over and over, it's far more annoying to deal with, I feel.
@Gyoo, (referring to post he replied to earlier), that's great to hear.
@Psarthex if you have a problem with the person, maybe block them instead of creating a witch hunt scenario. i did no such thing, and neither has punchy. i personally have no desire to engage you outside of this very forum which is why i blocked you and banned you from my Twitch channel. If you had no desire to come to my channel to bring that shit to my doorstep, then it doesn't make sense to say nasty things to me in a DM for not letting you talk about it. Beyond a shadow of a doubt, you had every intention to try to stir up drama in a place that doesn't concern you, and which concerns my personal livelihood, which is what makes me angry. What happens on speedrun.com is not a part of my stream.
I've read the whole thread so far (and it took a while tbh). I can clearly see that there are basically 2 clans and some other people somewhere in the middle. Things went a bit offtopic but it's also obvious that Psarthex' behaviour, even if he apologized multiple times for it, is highly related to what he wanted to point out to me at first.
I am aware that the rules and ToS on speedrun.com are not clearly defined. As it has been said before, so far we've left that to the communities' discretion for the most things, but I've already pointed out that making clearer public/general rules is something we want to have in a not-so-far future (once again, ETAs are a complex thing)
As for the case itself, I'll wait for a bit more to see if any action is needed. With SGDQ coming up my free time is limited.
Reading all of this was pretty hard.
Psarthex, I suggest learning from this. If you continue to be unprofessional, spread hate to another persons channel, and start threads about calling out Punchy, then I see no reason to take you seriously. The thumbnail for your NG+ WR is a nude picture of Zoe with an iPhone for freakin' sake.
As a content creator who is also a top player of a few games, I have one piece of advice.
Do the run again.
