What does the XInput Plus program do? Does it pretend to be a controller somehow? How does it achieve that compared to Ginput?

XInput Plus only converts the XInput calls to DInput calls so it can get read by the game.

According to Illuminati it adds files into the SA directory, so thats not much better.

At least that doesn't give unfair advantages like GInput. :)

You are right mtoms. Ive used it for another game, and what it does is adds like 5 files to the game. It adds an xinput 1_3.dll, (modified) a dinput8.dll (modified) and a dinput.dll (modified) along with some config files for it to work.

So GInput is being replaced by another mod, so everyone that said, "its not about the time its about it being a mod" or anything along the lines of wanting a more vanilla game basically get nothing. GInput users would have to set up a harder to use mod that has been giving Illuminati and BackMadeJay problems. The only positive out of it is that it supposedly wont allow you to shift from using a controller to using a mouse without pausing, which is only an unfair advantage over people who use a controller but not GInput and has no timesave compared to using the mouse the whole time, and as far as i know that only benefits me. So there is no way to use an xbox control without modifying the game, contrary to what many people said in here.

Is this worth it? Why not outlaw all controller mods and mouse fixes as some have suggested? and mp3 randomizer while we are at it.

Personally I am flattered that you care so much about the 2-4 seconds per run i might be losing. It has to be about the timesave cause you are replacing it with a mod.

Ginput adds a benefit to the player that was never in the vanilla game to begin with. That is it. Full stop.

Dinput provides relief from a mouse issue that plagues some of the runners of this game.

The difference is, dinput provides no benefit to people that do not need it. If someone does not have a mouse problem, there's no benefit to using dinput.

Why is it fair that I lose time over others because I'm not using ginput? It's not, especially considering it adds a benefit that was never in the vanilla game to begin with. That is the problem and it is what we are trying to address.

If you don't see that that is a problem, I can see how you would be so unreasonably mad and draw lines in the sand. So recognize that this is unfair and let's come up with a mutually agreeable solution, instead of whining about it. We've got 15 pages of childish behavior and input from a crowd that really has no idea what they're talking about and refuses to educate themselves.

So let's start there, shall we?

I still fail to see how any keyboard and mouse player is put at a disadvantage. Switching from a controller to a mouse on the fly is slower than continuing to use a mouse throughout, I can't think of a single circumstance where this is not true. The only time you are gaining by switching from a controller to a mouse on the fly is over someone who is having to stop and pause in order to switch, the timesave comes from not pausing not from the switch itself. The only people that are put at a disadvantage are people not using the mod and still using a controller, and that is me and I think only me.

And the second reason keyboard and mouse users are not at an unfair disadvantage is because you have access to GInput and can use it if you wish because it is an allowed mod (as of now). So if you want to setup a controller and have it there for 9s and AKs you can. It's not unfair it's completley fair cause everyone is allowed to use the same equipment.

So sorry keyboard and mouse people, you are playing on the fastest equipment regardless of switching unless you want to count fractions of a second on one single portion of a mission.

TLDR : there is no unfair timeloss for kb+m because there is no timeless and even if there was it would be fair.

Now if you want to ban it just cause it's a mod that changes the way the game works that's fine but be honest about it and be thoughtful.

There is unfair timeloss due to the feature added in ginput to change aim styles on the fly. Not in the vanilla game. I am not installing a mod and hooking up a controller to take advantage of a time save that isn't even in the game to begin with. That, in my mind, is not a solution.

Nati, I agree with you. This entire thread is a shitfest and the organization is abhorrent. My problem is those that fail to recognize ginput adding an advantage that otherwise wouldn't exist. Which is the reason this thread is here. It is a problem that warrants discussion and collective problem solving. Not brigading and "us vs. them" behavior.

This thread ought to be closed and we ought to start over. The frustration runs deep on both sides. That's why clear communication is critical so that we can all come to a conclusion that we can all live with.

your saying to replace one mod with an other, again this is pointless and it's been shown that ginput doesnt add anything to the game that will make it faster as hints to the fact the WR doesn't use ginput. what will change adding in hoxys mod huh? it's the same as ginput only worst at the same time. Nati had to re-download the game because of it it's a broken mod trying to replace a well working mod. I don't see ones so ever how hoxy mod is better in any way. If ginput get ban only cause of it being a mod cool but think how many runners you'll lose cause of something so dumb as saying it adds to the game files as so does hoxy mod. if you don't want mods ban all of them even hoxys not one at a time as what is trying to be done now.

Thread shouldn't be here, neither should it be a thing. Play with a controller, don't play with a controller who cares? cmonBruh

(B)

Good morning. I'm finally home from being out all of yesterday.

I'm locking the thread, naturally, since this has gotten completely out of hand.

To clarify coz the only post I'm reading properly is Crook's above mine (it was at the time of posting anyway), I had no part in the allowing/disallowing of mods (from what I remember). Quite frankly if I didn't give a shit about anyone else's opinions I'd ban every single mod to avoid any of this bullshit and to keep in line with 90% of all other speedrunning. None of them are necessary imo, I struggled with mouse issues for years until I found a solution that didn't require a mod (just keep a controller plugged in).

Over the next week everyone should chill out, try alternatives to mods you "need" to use and talk about your results. But I want to know about why people feel both Dinput AND GInput are necessary/are not necessary. Hell even the windowed d3d9.dll mod doesn't seem needed if alternatives like dxwnd, d3dwindower and 3DAnalyze exist. (I'm getting this list from https://www.speedrun.com/gtasa/thread/ar4sg)

(I just released this post came across as "fuck mods and fuck you" but I'm just mad shit blew up, if there are actual legitimate reasons for keeping any of the allowed mods then obviously we should, but this thread didn't have any back and forth discussion from what I read, just people shouting at each other)