Definition of 100%
8 years ago

We can just make a 99% category. There are others speedruns that have 101%...

Venezuela

Log time of inactivity, and shameless bump here, but I still don't agree with the fuel cell being deemed as "collectible". That's the only thing I have an issue with so far

Even tho certain side quests grant you fuel cells as a prize, we still gotta create and separate some labels here. Fuel cells are not collectibles, they are "perishables". Here's a little example: in Banjo- Kazooie speedruns, the mumbo tokens are deemed as perishables, and therefore, they're not part of the 100% definition criteria (an issue with the duplicated token in different locations being one reason), and unlike the fuel cells, there's a very specific amount of them throughout the different maps. The mumbo tokens don't show in the progress screen like the honeycombs (or like the cheato pages in Banjo-Tooie), something that's shared here as well, the fuel cells are shown nowhere in the items/status screen.

Remember we want to optimize the runs, not make them cumbersome just for the sake of being overly arbitrary with a definition. I mean, if you end up saying that criteria is not meant to make the category any more arbitrary than it should, then if it were up to me, if you needed to end the run with a count of xx amounts of fuel cells, and it'd be much faster to grind for scarabs and buy the remaining amount of fuel cells I need to reach that amount, I would, just to give an example.

We want a category very different from any% as well as any% glitchless, but we don't want it to be extremely arbitrary, and make it way more annoying to run in the process, we want something that would be jsut as fun to run as any%

Something to keep in mind: I think the BK community has another category for 100% which includes mumbo tokens and stop n' swop items as well, but making different categories in SFAdv for 100% with very little differences from each other doesn't sound very appealing, imo

That's my humble opinion.

Edited by the author 7 years ago
Pennsylvania, USA

I can agree with fuel cells not being part, we never got anywhere with this because no one would agree with the definition that were people that ran / knew more about how to define properly

Venezuela

It just kinda bothers me that we can't reach a proper 100% definition because of stupid technicisms. Or that some other people just disagree with it cause "ew no 100%" counter.

I mean, come on, 100% is no longer glitchless any%, why do we have to keep running on circles to come up with a definition? I find it a bit unfair too that up to this day, neither Usiku's run or mine weren't even considered cause "no 100% definition" so ok fine, we sit and discuss, no one agrees.

Jesus christ.

Colorado, USA

All staff upgrades/magic upgrades All spellstones placed All Krazoa Spirits placed All Cheat Tokens deposited (Cheats are an incentive) All Maps purchased. All Shop Upgrades purchased

Venezuela

That has been done already, yet "fuell cells" are collectibles, or bafomdads, or 100% counter or whatever other arbitrary thing are still being considered despite we coming back to the same conclusion all over again, and it all loops in a seemingly endless cycle lol

Colorado, USA

It's not like we can add the 75 fuel cells and not be aloud to buy them. That's like banning something that is intended in the game. I'm pretty sure I'm the only one who brought up the fuel cells anyway. People went haywire over it for some reason. Bafomdads are even more arbitrary. Enough said there. The 100% counter is suppose to reach 99% without sequence breaks. So, casually, that's the only outcome and doesn't effect anything, giving it no incentive.

Colorado, USA

What has been done for 100% already makes sense. We should just go off of that. It's been done already. If no one else is giving input, I'd assume it's either because they don't have anything against it or they don't care.

Pennsylvania, USA

I'm fine with whatever is decided, though just to make sure, "100%" is technically glitchless, so some kind of word variation to determine some kind of "complete the game" would suffice. I'd say let's get a complete definition, rules, and whatever else required up and running so we can retire this thread.

Colorado, USA

A problem I still have is whether we have to deposit stones/spirits. I think we should.The only trick I think that will cancel out is Cape Claw Early. I'm also not sure if it's still faster to get the 2nd spirit and then do cape claw early as opposed to going to krazoa palace to place it in. Either way, this shouldn't be the determining of whether to place the stones/spirits in or not. And really, isn't it only the second spirit that can't be turned in? 1st spellstone has to be turned in to get the 2nd spirit. So, just for one spirit, it doesn't make sense.

Edited by the author 7 years ago
Colorado, USA

So from what I've seen, Narbe and Usiku are the only two runners who have done 100% (assuming both runs were gone by the same definition). Those two runs: -Deposited all spirits/stones -Bought all Maps -Bought all Upgrades -Obtained every Staff Upgrade/Magic Increase Collected and deposited all 8 Cheat Tokens (Correct me if any of this is wrong) So really, 100% was always a thing. There have been runs of it. It should go off of whatever it is. The rules that have already been set are fine as is. They make sense. A lot of categories start out that way. For example, Paper Mario TTYD times the credits because the first ever run did it. If fuel cells are added, then bafomdads are added. They are both perishables. They both play similar roles. So really, the only way to solve this is to not add either of them.

Edited by the author 7 years ago
Pennsylvania, USA

I think the difference was dealing with cheat tokens, weather depositing was required

Colorado, USA

Cheats are an incentive. The game acknowledges that you deposited them. It rewards you. That's why I think they should be deposited. All though not all of them give cheats. Idk

Colorado, USA

I'ts kind of the same thing with fuel cells and bafomdads. We deposit the stones/spirits. Cheat tokens should be the same.

Växjö, Sweden

In my opinion you should go with collecting everything that is counted as an item in you inventory that the game offers you and doesn't respawn. Including or excluding stuff because "it is not fun" seems weird. If I would be the only runner for this game and had to come up with a 100% category I would ask myself two questions.

  • Is it a permanent flag? If no, exclude it, if yes, move on to:
  • Is it an item/something in your inventory? If yes, include it, if no, exclude it. That would take away anything like blowing up rocks (which can also be permanent flags) and get rid of the "well is this a good item to collect" discussion.

The run might get long and full of detours but come on guys, it is 100%, it is supposed to be like that.

Colorado, USA

So basically that would include no major skips if every item needs to be obtained (which I'm fine with) such as the cloudrunner flute, gold/silver teeth etc. And every bafomdad collected would mean dying more times than I can count. It's just weird because what other speed game does that?

Pennsylvania, USA

I mean most games use deaths to save time, but dying to collect items is very interesting indeed. How many are there?

Colorado, USA

I believe there are 35 total. A gamefaq lists them all and notes which ones are missable.

Edited by the author 7 years ago
Växjö, Sweden

This discussion has a bad habit of dying out all the time.

Pennsylvania, USA

I don't have the information to weigh in so we're at the mercy of people who ran it but yeah...inconsistency.

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