Intrest in a glitchless category for both games
7 years ago
New Jersey, USA

Is there any intrest in a Glitchless Any% category? What do you all think of this? What should be considered a glitch?

I consider these to be glitches:

Select Door Glitch Swap Hopping Wall Hopping Bubble Warping El Inferno #3 and #8 Abuse Shop Warping

If this does become a category I think it should be in both Gold and STCE, the latter of which I plan on running Glitchless.

Edited by the author 7 years ago
California, USA

I can easily agree with SDG. Swap Hop and even El Ifierno abuse are kinda hard to tell.

My argument was EI Exploit was literally released by devs as a backdoor against players accidentally skipping abilities. Maybe #3 is a glitch. 8 is "not a glitch".

Bulgaria

Swap Hopping is just mechanics abuse.

Going through all the tricks I'm aware of that exist -Select Door Glitch is, obviously, a glitch.

-Shop Warping I would not consider a glitch, that's using the mechanics of the shop points and abusing their odd hitboxes.

-Swap Hopping is... tricky. Pardon me while I sort this while typing. You have to consider how it's even able to be done. After swapping back to human form while in the air, you are considered on the ground for an instant, which lets you jump mid-air. So that's not really a glitch, it's exploiting the way swapping was programmed

-Wall-hopping same story. You're using the properties of the walljump ability to do it. Plus the devs even knew about it when they released the game.

-El Infierno is also tricky. I'm curious how the route would look with and without it honestly. I'm not sure I can call it a glitch outright, but it would just feel wrong if you used that in a "glitchless" run. Using a trick to instantly get all abilities just feels like a glitch, regardless of semantics.

-Bubble Warping is obviously a glitch. Not that anyone is doing any runs with that anyway.

Edited by the author 7 years ago
New Jersey, USA

Obviously before we make the category we need to define what we consider a glitch. That or we call it glitchless but it's really just exploitless.

Edited by the author 7 years ago
England

Alright, here we go. This is just my opinion on what is/isn't a glitch.

SDG - Certainly a glitch.

Infierno #3 and #8 - I feel that they're both glitches (they both do the same thing so one can't be considered a glitch without the other) and while not being the "intended" way to play through the game, a backdoor can still be a glitch.

Wall/Swaphopping - Both are not glitches but mechanic exploits. while Wallhopping is easier to stomach as not being a glitch because you do normal things to perform it, I feel swaphopping is the same in that you need specific abilities to perform is and time save benefits vary from player to player depending on skill.

Shop warping - Again, it's a wrong warp and certainly not the way it is intended for you to use the shop altars. I suppose you could say that wall/swaphopping isn't intended either but I still consider this a glitch.

Bubble warping - Luckily this isn't possible in STCE (at least to my knowledge) but I put it in the same category as wallhopping, you're taking advantage of the mechanics here. So not a glitch, but I'd like to see this specifically ruled out of a new category by way of controller limitations because runs containing it aren't entertaining in the slightest.

Just my opinions, do what you like with them.

OmegaFallon likes this
California, USA

I'm very on the fence about swaphopping. Yes, it is basic movement tech, but the fact the game registers you in a standing state makes me iffy on this.

Shop/Checkpoint abuse seems fine to me.

So far, SDG and Bubble Warp seem universally banned. Wall Hops in.

Still in discussion: El Infierno and Swap Hops

OmegaFallon likes this

I don't think shop warping is a wrong warp. It has to do with the hitbox for accessing the shop and the hitbox for activating the shop's save point being two different hitboxes.

Just restating, even if El Infierno isn't by definition a glitch, it just feels like it shouldn't be in a glitchless run.

And swap hopping I'm still on the fence on. It really just sits right on that line between exploiting an oversight and glitch

OmegaFallon likes this

I came to a decision on swaphopping.

Let's assume we decide to call it a glitch. The thing that enables the glitch to be performed is the fact that the game considers you standing on ground for an instant after swapping to human form in midair. This would mean every time you did so, you'd be performing part of the glitch. Not to mention, this is something that could easily be accidentally done in casual play.

So no, I'm not going to consider swaphopping a glitch.

California, USA

How could it be easily done? Not banning untransformed while jumping. You would have to accidentally hold jump and accidentally hit two buttons in near succession.

OmegaFallon likes this
Québec

What about a no major skips category? Basically ruling out SDG, the Great Temple skip and el infierno but leave wall hop/swap hop. It would be fairly similar to glitchless without the arguing over what is and isn't a glitch.

Quogu and OmegaFallon like this
New Jersey, USA

I like this idea.

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