So we have nothing...no route guides or combat guides or anything here. This hasn't been an issue, really, as we are a small community.
However, I've seen more interest lately, partially because of Maxy's AGDQ run of 1, I'm sure, and some of that interest seems to be coming to 4. Even Elajjaz, an awesome runner from my former community (Soulsborne/Speedsouls...I used to run Bloodborne) has recently been seen playing 4:SE.
So I suggest we collaborate on some resources (at least full routes for each character plus a general guide). I can host and manage a wiki (I have hosting space and can volunteer the resources) or we can make some stuff in Google Docs, on Pastebin, or whatever (I'm open to suggestions).
I used to be a writer (as in I'm published and regularly get crappy residual checks) so I can do the lion's share of the actual writing, but I only really possess expertise in Vergil. That's where the rest of the community comes in. I've beaten every game except 2 on DMD and beaten 4 with every character, but I've only run Vergil, and I'm not even the best Vergil player (yet...Kappa). I need the other routes and explanations of the tech involved.
So I need volunteers for the other characters. I will do most of the writing (assuming you want that...you can all write whatever you want, I'm just trying to help make sure it all happens) and make up a set of questions for each volunteer that will let me write out each resource.
If you're interested, please contact me via email at thepuck77gaming @gmail.com. I'm also on Twitter @thePuck77 and Discord @thePuck77#5239, so feel free to hit me up wherever you feel most comfortable.
im slowly routing dmc3 hoh. for dmc4se... well... you can't just write how much jc you should make to kill an enemy, considering ai's rng and the rest of the clown fiesta. good luck with that
http://www.speedrun.com/dmc4se/guide/yr31x
Something for your mind, your body, and soul. Need to make one for Vergil but it's been a while and my memory is a bit foggy.
Awesome!
I'm working on both a route template and then a route using it for Vergil. My goal is to be able to break down any game into various features like "major and minor tech", "execution-based, glitch-based, and mixed skips", things like that. I want us to be able to stop reinventing the wheel with every game.
Obviously, each of these routes will end up unique, but at the same time the template will act as both a tool for thinking about, breaking down, and talking about speedgames.
Of course, this will also be very useful for the Youtube show I've been planning and working on, thus aiding my general plans for world domination, but that's just a bonus.
Thanks for the contribution, Bun. As always, you are one of the backbones of our community and I appreciate your efforts.
Do you plan on intertwining fight strategies with general route guides? They're fairly distinct in this game, and I could talk for a while about individual fights, boss quick-kills, and dealing with contingencies, while the route itself is pretty straightforward, minus a couple brief skips.
I want to create a general template that will definitely include space for detailed combat discussion. I will then create a route document using that template for Vergil. If you want to contribute combat details for a specific character's route, it will go in there. More general stuff on general mechanics, the missions, and bosses will go in a generalized section related to the game but not a specific route.
If you want to just write out whatever you wish whenever and send it to me, I can plug it into the template for you later. Or you can wait till I've got the template finished or until I've finished my Vergil route using the template to get a better idea of what I'm intending, whichever works best for you.
You're also free to just write stuff up and add it to the resources section, of course. I'm just trying to make sure this actually gets done, so I'm taking responsibility for what I can.
I feel like fight-specific stats would get very cumbersome very quickly. I think the better option is to teach players the mechanics of the combat and use that as a building block for them to understand how to do each fight.
Combat in this game is like a language. You could teach set phrases for most situations, but if you run into a situation that isn't taught you're out of luck. It's much better to teach the system behind the language so that someone can create their own sentences rather than parrot set ones.
While I agree to a degree, I think that different players learn differently and what might be cumbersome for some may be what's necessary for others.
I'm a very rhythmic player, for example...I play guitar and keyboards and for me, CG and fighting games are like playing an instrument. I couldn't actually explain what I'm doing at all by this point because it's very nonverbal to me. I had a viewer asking me about JJCs the other day and after I finished my runs I tried to show him how to do them...which led to me struggling to verbalize what's actually happening.
Now, when I'm first learning, I can look at combo guides and learn from those to start with (especially with fighting games) but from that point on I'm experimenting and "riffing", figuring out moves and combos like I might learn a new song.
But some people sit there and study movelists and frame-data for a massive amount of time and learn primarily that way. They could list the infinites from MvC3 move by move and tell you the frames each link of them take.
This is why I think a collaborative project is so useful...I am thinking in terms of categories and abstractions because that is my style of thought, so I am working on a template that abstracts out features of speedrunning in general and this game in specific. Others who think in more concrete terms clearly want to contribute combat details, and I'm sure others will come up with other stuff I can't predict.
Since this is going to be a linked document anyway, I don't see any downside to including anything on-topic. It won't be any more cluttered than any wiki because all that info doesn't have to fit on one sheet of paper or something. Is there something I'm not seeing, some reason why that information should NOT be included?
Not a bad idea...I will attempt as much as possible to make the routing template user-friendly, and the more overwhelming stuff can be hidden unless the reader wants to go there. I see the value in having detailed combat data for each enemy, for example, but it needs to be its own document for those who want to learn it.
New here, Learning the game and one thing needed is boss setups like Mekarazium did for Berial. You can learn most of the route watching the stuff on the leader boards, but maybe explain why certain things are done.
yo i'm making a huge video guide, ~60% done for the very first video. check the pastebin for the starting info, otherwise pm me in a discord if you want the epxlanation of the cycle im using (not recommended for the beginners tho)
the peeps in DMC discord also can help you. try this invite, maybe it's still working: https://discord.gg/GxqhqW9
