So im going for sub 5 the easiest way losing 2 frame rules (one in 4-2 and forcing bad judges in 8-1) and doing 2 frame wj but im having problems with 8-4 patterns like lowdaboo and cheeps is there any better starting times then -3.28 and if you know them can you link the hammer bros patterns and what the last koopa does in 8-2. I would appreciate it alot cause ive been lowdabooed twice and cheeped twice on sub 5 pace.

3.98 or 4.68

The problem with 8-4 after room 1 is that "framerules" no longer apply, since the FRAME that you complete each room determines the rng for the next room... so unless you're consistent enough at 8-4 that you're able to replicate what number of frames you will lose or gain in each room (some of the top level players are able to) there's really not a framerule you can start on that will help imo - just cross your fingers and hope for good luck...

@Darpey but on certain framerule you are more likely to get good patterns

Fair enough. That being said - does cubored's suggestion of 3.98 and 4.68 account for the 2 fr loss?

Also raven - are you getting the optimal rule in 8-2? The one that requires you to do the fast pipe clear?

Yes, i used 4.30 (firgot it wasnt 4.68) when i lost the 8-1 fr and did slow plant jump in 8-2 (wich loses a fr) and 3.98 has always given me good patterns seemingly almost no matter what my time loss is

What exactly do you mean losing the fr in 4-2, just outta curiousity...are you just doing slower 3 bump?

@Darpey i do optimal pipe clear in 8-2 the slow method just seems off @cubored i do 3 bump but i almost always get 374 then 375 i can adjust and get the frame rule but the patterns arent too good for 3.28, i can do a perfect run but losing 4-2 makes it slightly easier

I just wanna get sub 5 already ive been on pace to last room twice :/

You just gotta be lucky. Cheeps can fuck you up depending on what frame you enter last room. Bowser is also based by the frame you enter'd last room. You can react if he jumps forwards or backwards. If he jumps forwards, run under him and get the free victory. If he jumps backwards, jump through his hammers and pray. GL on that sub 5!

It's also not uncommon to have to get a run to 8-4 on the pace you want 10+ times before you make it through (missing the wall jump, shorting the turnaround, hit by a cheep, killed in water, bowser's hammers, or a stupid mistake)

Yeah but I really appreciate your info and knowledge. This community is so nice and helpful compared to some communities ive been in. thx guys :)

It took me 14 times to 8-4 to get my low 458 PB...and that was with 2 frame walljump, so yeah. It can take a long time.