Unknown glitches?
6 years ago
Mexico
Slevanas
She/Her, They/Them
6 years ago

I don't know how but some world best times for missions are ridiculous like Trinity Infiltration in 56 seconds. How is this possible and what are they doing to get these insane times.

Scotland

My guess would be OOB. They were demonstrated in Adam Miler's videos but I don't know how exacty to replicate them. This is obviously jumping the gun, but if OOB is available in several levels, perhaps that could be a new category?

DeepDarkness will be making some guides soon I think, perhaps he can shed some light.

Edited by the author 6 years ago
Mexico
Slevanas
She/Her, They/Them
6 years ago

Yeah, glitchless should be a category. He did try to tell me how to do it, but I just can't do it. If we can get a visual and audio commentary guide for each level that would be awesome.

Scotland

I've spent the last hour researching the OOB possibiities, all the ones I can find with clear explanations are no use for speedrunning lol, got a few videos with useful skips but no commentary, so I'll have a bash and see if I can work out what's happening.

Valencia, Spain

Trinity Infiltration in 58 seconds? Haha, very hard to believe that!! Not even in Agent.

I have 3 theories though:

  1. I know there is an OoB glitch on the beginning of that level, but the player who found it didn't really find any use to it because Dr Caroll didn't spawn in his game when he tried it. I'll have to study it myself, though, since I know a lot about that level, but first I'd have to learn how to glitch, I've never tried yet because first I want to speedrun everything glitchless.
  2. Where is the checkpoint for that level? (I can't check it until Monday) When you fail/abort a mission after the checkpoint and press "Control", your mission time will be only from the checkpoint to the end. Maybe the checkpoint is somewhere near the end? However I pretty much doubt it is. If it's where I think it is, I can guarantee that even with glitches you can't pace that time, including guiding Dr Caroll to his office.
  3. Hacks/Cheats/Gamesharks... Fake. On Perfect Dark XBLA there are some impossible WRs as well.

So yeah, I'll have to experiment with OoBs if I find out how to do them, but I doubt 100% that 58 on that level is possible to even pace.

Mexico
Slevanas
She/Her, They/Them
6 years ago

Huh so checkpoint cheating for faster times is a thing :O

Valencia, Spain

Well... That's why we should not accept runs unless they go all the way from the beginning to the ending.

But even with checkpoints... For that particular mission I don't know where it is, but if it's where I think it is, 58 can't be done, I'm 100% sure of that. Not even with glitches, I mean. I'll have to check stuff myself though.

Mexico
Slevanas
She/Her, They/Them
6 years ago

You can get to a checkpoint and die then reload checkpoint and finish.

Valencia, Spain

I sincerely think no runs like that should be accepted, though. Because that only measures the time of the second part of the level, not the level itself. You can't say I've beat that level in that time. The game is dessigned wrong in that aspect because PDZ is meant to be played for points, not for times, which imo is a mistake, but I think here, like in other games, we should only count runs that go from the beginning to the end for the in-game ranks, and yes, that means deathless runs.

Mexico
Slevanas
She/Her, They/Them
6 years ago

True, and hopefully something is found. So we can push to under 50 minutes.

Edited by the author 6 years ago
Scotland

The checkpoint for Trinity Infil. is just after the Brothers fight at the start, so OOB or other tricks would still be needed to achieve 58.

With the 2 OOB I know save time, and not screwing up lol (for me that was definitely the Temple...) sub-55 is definitely a reality, but yeah, hopefully more can be found. There us an OOB in Jungle but its fairly near the end I think. I haven't tested it for myself though.

As long as we don't accept runs with no video evidence then checkpoint reloading shouldn't be a problem here. I think it could be a viable strat for full-game runs though, since iirc you restart with ful body armour. For example, if you take a lot of hits during the Brothers fight, you can sacrifice 5 seconds or however long it takes and get full health / armour again.

Mexico
Slevanas
She/Her, They/Them
6 years ago

I don't think it's worth it because in my run it took forever for me it to reload checkpoint. And is not worth the time loss, but maybe for higher difficulties.

Scotland

that's a good point, might be an xbone-only strat, though it would only really be a backup / safety either way

Edited by the author 6 years ago
Valencia, Spain

For full-game speedruns it's perfectly fine to use checkpoints imo, because it's measured as real time. Also, not only you restart with full health and full body armour, but also, you start again with your initial weapons with full ammo, which can be pretty useful sometimes.

But for ILs, using checkpoints messes up the in-game time, making that feature of the game useless. People can do whatever pleases, but since I only play for in-game times and not real time runs, for me it won't ever be okay to post an IL speedrun that uses checkpoints, and if someone does, I personally can't count it as a WR myself. When the-Elite started playing this game they didn't accept runs using checkpoints either for the same reason.

About Trinity Infiltration, you can get an OoB glitch at the corners of the huge gate after the brothers fight and it drives you straight downstairs, but as far as I know, you are still far from Dr Caroll's optimal spot, and also, he doesn't spawn if you glitch they say, I haven't tried it myself. Also, let's do some math: in my game, from the moment I start to speak to Dr Caroll till the end of the mission, it takes about 39-40 seconds. That means that even with an instant glitch you would need to reach Dr Caroll in less than 20 seconds including the time to reach the glitch spot and the glitch itself. Basically, even if you use the checkpoint and the glitch, it's impossible that you can ever pace 58 seconds in that mission. Here, like in PD XBLA, people have find a way to use gamesharks or hacks or something to do impossible times, and that's why the "World's Best" rank in this game can never be trusted. I think I once saw a perfect run on PD XBLA by Timokless (that guy is the most insane speedrunner I've ever seen in that game) which was something like 58 seconds, and when he showed the World Ranks someone had a 0:16 in theory, which is 100% impossible.

Scotland

Does The-Eiite play PDZ?

I wonder if you can glitch your way into one of the rooms with intercom to page Dr Carroll and get him to spawn that way?

Valencia, Spain

The Elite doesn't play PDZ since like 10 years ago. But a few Eliters did play the game when it came out: Christian Fengler (PDM), Ian Fallen (Fal), Adam Miller, and a few more. But those were times where YouTube was not a thing, which is a shame. But after a few months they seemed to get bored of the game or something. The German Gaming Elite also used to play the game, but again, that was 10 years ago, and the only really notable player seemed to be PDM, which is an Eliter. There was a guy with nickname Ayron who started speedrunning Dark Agent mode and got some decent times, but I've only found 2 videos from him (temple in 4:03, and jungle in 15:03, you can find them in David Schiering's YouTube Channel). In some levels he needed almost an hour though, I think, and I haven't found any other video by him.

About the Trinity question, yeah, I've wondered that too, since the guy who got the glitch I talk about managed to reach one of those intercom things but didn't use it for some reason, so I have no idea if that would actually work. He didn't even get close enough to it for the "activate" message to appear on screen. If I ever learn to glitch, I'll spend time on this particular level. But still, 58 seconds doesn't seem like something that can be done, given that since the moment you see Dr Caroll you still need like 40 seconds to end the mission.

Mexico
Slevanas
She/Her, They/Them
6 years ago

See I wish one of them or someone would make a tutorial for it. Adam tried to tell me how to do it, but I don't think it's possible. I see him clip and take cover faster than I can do.

Scotland

I've seen somebody else do the same trick but with no explanation it's just a flurry of unknown button mashes. It has something to do with covering at a corner and aiming round the wall but beyond that I'm stumped. I know how to make some floors and walls disappear in Trin Infiltration but it's just cosmetic and useless lol

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