Hi everyone, over the few years the newest smash games have been out i wanted to make sure both smash U and 3DS had leaderboards and have them be good quality. And to be blunt, at the moment both leaderboards are in my opinion very bad and sloppy. I will be COMPLETELY editing both 3DS and WiiU soon and will have better rules and just everything will be more professional. Thank you guys for submitting and showing you care, but i want the leaderboards to not look like a huge meme. You can talk to me on twitter or on discord or my twitch streams if you have questions or ideas for how to make them better. But expect times to be deleted/categories to be deleted/other changes of that nature. Thank you
I'm seriously all good with the changes. They really help but just letting other mods know before doing so or asking for opinions would not go badly tbh. But ty
Actually, looking back at it, there are major fuck ups here including IGT, Co-op and some good categories gone. I unmodded myself and Super'd Shadow because you fucked up kinda bad actually
Well i took it apon myself to completely fix this and wiiu's leaderboards and yea i did mess up a bit but i didnt mess up any of the IGT, im not going to have Time W/O loads because i think its arbitrary, if the category has IGT use IGT if it doesnt, use RTA, its easier to follow that way. And if there were runs that were accidentally deleted its very easy to resubmit a PB or contact me about a concern, not to degrade all the hard work i put into both leaderboards so that they dont look confusing and dont make sense. Sorry I messed up a little bit but I was the only one doing all the work and i did ask some people for help and made a post. So yea....
Where is said post? I've tried to help it to the best of my ability and then you come in and sort of screw that up. Showing up out of nowhere and "COMPLETELY editing both 3DS and WiiU" even though, with a few minor exceptions, 3DS is fine, is bs. Not having time w/o loads puts a point on the community where it is either use a New 3DS or don't run the game because loads are undeniably faster on there and that shoves people away. Also, could I have a couple of examples of who you asked? Just to make sure that things your saying isn't shit. Also the rules look kinda, no definitely worse than before. They used to be extensive and explain the rules in a well formatted manor. You decided to scrap that shit and replace it with 3 lines which were nearly copied and pasted between cats. You clearly don't know things about the game otherwise you would know that it is impossible for 3DS players to do Classic Mode Co-op. That's Wii U exclusive. And finally, saying that you put so much "hard work... into both leaderboards" makes you sound like a fucking hero. You really think anybody gave 2 fucks about the leaderboards format beforehand? No, of course not. It was perfectly fine and changing that with only an hours notice after over a year of the 3ds boards, is quite frankly disrespectful.
P.S. In your discord name, you need your tag number as well e.g. Ergkjr #2758. I would have PM'd you but it was entirely impossible to do so over discord
I asked InprisonedShadow and I got help from other speedfriends who have mod in leaderboards to see what was the best way of going about this and i made the post, and this took all day to do. I didnt come out of no where, i created both 3ds and WiiU leaderboards and have been watching both leaderboards ever since. the whole thing with times without loads in my opinion isnt necessary because there is a way to specify whether or not the runner used New 3DS or just the regular 3DS and its not exactly something people would want to take the time to add up each fight and get a time cuz theres stuff you have to do that isnt in just the fights. It was confusing and not everyone was using that timeing method so using RTA and IGT when IGT is given (like in All Star) is the most user friendly and easy to use. You're making me out to be an asshole when all i was doing to organizing the leaderboards because I wanted to.
Time without loads should never have been a method for timing classic. especially when it's not used for any other smash game for speedruns and if it is, they are usually left blank. (eg the melee leaderboards) timing without loads is just a silly method because videos of it can be silly, you can have an hour long video and have the run only be 5 mins just because they weren't doing anything. IGT when shown like in All Star is a fine exception because it's already kept track of. But in places where it doesn't then it's not worth having.
the leader boards before were abit silly and meme-ish and just seemed to be rushed when put in. things were scattered and didn't blend well with what were the more important categories. (that's why I ran the game for like a day and quit, or didn't even update my new times I got simply because I didn't feel like taking it seriously.
Leader boards never have 100% agreement (i've seen in on multiple occasions) so seeing mixed feelings is understandable. However just leaving simply because of changes is pretty ridiculous & pretty ill-mannered. Understanding that the changes were in order to make the leaderboards better, and wasn't a thing he did for himself is important. Plus more or less people who don't run smash games seriously will never see a reason to change them, regardless if they like them or not. People will submit runs simply because the leaderboard is there and that's how it is in their eyes. Especially if the number of runners isn't that big.
Changes happened literally a day ago, by one person, and voices of others. Which means it can still be unfinished & open to hear ideas, but as it currently stands right now, the leaderboards are on the right track to becoming better and already have reached a perfectly fine peak.
Well put bud! And like I said, im open for ideas and able to edit whatever. I just want it to be user friendly and make it so people want to come back to it
I'm sorry, but IGT is VITAL to this leaderboard staying somewhat relevant, because if we remove it, the new 3ds is just overpowered and essentially gives you a free good time. that's it, that means that I'm out of ever getting a good time, that puts ergkjr out, and that puts many good runners out of getting a good time (but you wouldn't know that coz you don't own the game) that's all I have to say. (don't mean to come across as disrespectful, I'm just saying it how it is)
Keeping the loads is just as vital. Could always make n3ds as a different category or something. Alot of other leaderboards have a setup like that anyway, like sm64 or something have different categories for the console they're playing on; (e.g. n64, VC, & emu. Keeping a timing method that is very obsolete just so other players can compete against other devices is silly. (where is the "you don't know because you don't own the game" even coming from? lol)
I'm just gunna say this again, because obviously you guys don't remember. I made the speedrun.com leaderboard for Super Smash Bros. 3DS. waaay back in 2014 i wanted to make sure there was a leaderboards for it. So I made it, and made the basic categories. Yes I dont play the game that much and havent submitted times, that doesnt mean i dont know the game or own it or what not. I have been speedrunning for a long time and am mod in PLENTY of other SRC leaderboards to have an idea of what is the best way to approach certain games. it isnt always necessary to split a category because of a version difference, SM64 did that because of how the top players didnt like that VC was faster so they all decided as a community to separate it. But for another example, Spongebob Squarepants: Battle for Bikini Bottom Xbox version is literally like 5 minutes or somehting faster than Gamecube, but they didnt split the categories completely because there isnt any differences between the versions, just load times. If someone REALLY cares about having WR in Classic (whatever difficulty) and this game gets to the point where load times matter, then they can either go "hey i have the best time in 3DS im happy with this) or they can go "i want to get the best time possible" and buy a New3DS. Same situation as the Spongebob game. So what im meaning to say is that the differences between what platform its played on isnt that big of a difference to split the categories in my opinion.
your stealing credit because it was me and my friend (hence the background) but y'know, yh thats a thing, and also i dont mind you changing the leaderboards, but when you cant even get the rules on 0.0 right and say time stops after beating master core, and saying that the intensity should be set to 9.0, i think we have a problem. To quote you from before "the leaderboards look a bit sloppy"
To bounce off of Hypnoshark's point, the 0.0 classic WR is cheating because it has to be played on "9.0". But seriously we could just keep IGT and leave it as it was because it was clearly working fine? No, cause that's too much hard work. What a good fucking meme. Spliting categories into 2 because of load times, is fucking retarded. Look at 99% of the leaderboards. You need to either fix that shit and stop acting like the fucking GOD of the 3DS leaderboards or hand off your moderatorship to someone who isn't braindead. I'm done trying to reason. You're a dumbass
All I'm seeing is someone who doesn't like change. I think it looks good to be honest, and yes changes can be made in the future. You don't have to act like your better than him when you did absolutely NOTHING to help. It's a work-in-progress and it will stay that way until things are the way it should be. Bashing on someone for doing work while sitting on your butt criticizing isn't helping your cause to be honest. It's no wonder you unmodded yourself because from my point of view, you didn't want to do any of the work to make it better.
OK, the leaderboards are much better then they were. Yes, if the rules have mistakes, just tell him. There's no point in bitching about something so minor, it's an easy fix. For N3DS thing just....lol. So many people of many speedgames have to buy a new console to be fastest. Speedrunning has a lot of Pay to Win in it, it's how it was, it's how it's been, it's how it will be. In game time for Classic doesn't make a whole lot of sense since the game doesn't keep track of it. That would be like timing a Mario Kart run by the time the runner gets on every track and adding those up. Also, 99% of the leaderboards look pretty damn good if you ask me
Hello,
First off, full disclaimer, I don't run this game, and do not know of the specifics of the smash 3ds community. That said, I do actively run the other smash games (most notably smash 64), and I've dealt with the IGT vs RT debate as well as the version differences debate sooo many times before, so I thought I'd leave my opinion. Maybe it will help?
I'm not going to go into details of the pros and cons of each, so here's a summary from my experience, and from what I've read above (note these are for Classic and All-Star):
Real Time: Pros; Easy timing method (start splits, end splits, there's your time). Cons: Version/console/handheld difference (some calling it pay to win)
IGT: Pros: All versions equal, accurate to the hundredth (time is counted in hundredths) Cons: Final time requires math (probably confusing for some, and some may not even want to calculate their IGT).
(I know there are more reasons than this, but these are the two main problems brought up in the posts above)
Basically, from my understanding of the above, and from past experience with this problem, the big question is whether to use a timing method that makes submitting runs very user friendly (Real Time), or a timing method that makes all versions equal and comparable (In-Game Time). In my opinion, both sides have completely valid arguments supporting their method and arguing against the other. However, this makes deciding on which method even harder. Any decision like this should be a community decision, agreed upon by everyone, or a clear majority (i.e. 75% or more). At the moment, the community seems split, which basically means either more discussion is needed, or an alternative solution should be used. Seeing as this is split right down the middle, and neither side seems willing to budge at all, how about this TEMPORARY solution:
Use both timing methods (i.e. have both a Real Time and an IGT for every run)
This way, you can see the pros and cons of both on the leaderboard itself. For now, if someone doesn't want to add up their IGT, then a mod could do it for them (looking quickly through all the categories, it looks like submissions are not very common, so it's not like you have to do it for 100 runs a week or something). Then, in a month or two, come back to this question. Look at the times put up. If it looks like the version difference is having a major impact and needs to be dealt with, go back to IGT. If the version difference is not as big a deal, stick to Real Time.
Regardless of what the decision is, whether it's done now, or months from now, it should be a COMMUNITY decision. The smash 3ds community should as a whole come to a consensus, or significant majority. A 50/50 split is not enough to make a good decision. If a decision cannot be made at the current time with the current data and information available, then I'd recommend you guys use both for now, and decide later when more info on the differences comes into play.
Again, I do not run this game, but from past experience on this topic in other smash games, I just wanted to maybe give a suggestion that might help. Regardless of the decision and result, I hope the decision you guys make is the best for the community.
pikashy
<(^o^)>
I actually mentioned having both to RDA when he was redoing these leaderboards. I think it would be a good compromise to have both. It's not that I think IGT is bad, just that RTA makes more sense that's all.
I think having both is a good solution
Alright, In-Game Time is now added, but RTA is the primary timing method. I didnt want to start anything lol, im fine with making adjustments to make everyone happy, just like what everyone basically said, dont be rude or disrespectful about it lol.
