Hi,
I am still kinda new to speedrunning (first run ever ~3 months ago) and I thought about doing a TIS-100 run. While thinking about it I got this question:
"In general: Is it allowed to use notes on a game during a run?"
Obviously for most runs, it is irrelevant anyway, but what about games like Adventure games, RPGs or runs like SMW ACE runs (with a couple of pixelperfect actions in somewhat arbitrary positions)? At first I tought it should be allowed because if you have to look up notes during a run it will be slower anyways, so looking up notes would have a definite time disadvantage anyways.
At second thought: Memorization in those kind of games aren't really that hard anyway. So what about runs, which are basically totally based on memorization? TIS-100 would such be an example: You have to write thounds of lines of assembler code. Notes would make a TIS-100 run possible with 0% game knowledge or memorization skills.
- Are there other games, which are heavily memorization based (more than your typical RPG/Adventures)?
- How do they handle notes during runs?
- Is there a general guideline on how to handle notes during such runs?
notes are a-ok in every way. you're allowed to use anything that doesn't influence the software or hardware of the game - basically anything that doesn't give you an unfair advantage.
Notes are always allowed, why shouldnt they?
I just created a small text file on my PC to look at, never write too much in it!! Ittakes way too long to read if you do so. I personally only used notes once in a RPG run, I only listed which level I need to be at which boss and a few other notes.
Thanks for the answers so far! I really just came here to get a feel of how the community feels about this, which I think I got.
Nonetheless to shine some light on the other side... European Union said: "you're allowed to use anything that doesn't influence the software or hardware of the game" I know of at least one game, where the rules explicitly state that it is illegal to use a RAM watch (Cuphead). This would contradict your statement, as a RAM watch doesn't influence the game in any way, However I guess this rule is implicit for many games however or am I wrong? I mean a RAM watch can give someone an unfair information advantage (the same way notes do... it's just that in almost all (but not all) cases the advantage is too small to matter).
RAM watch is usually tied into RAM editing and editing RAM is always banned because by it influences the game.
But, just a pure RAM watcher is often banned because you could use that to predict item drops, enemy movements/attacks, etc and that provides an unfair advantage. So while purely RAM watching doesn’t necessarily impact the game in a direct way, it impacts it indirectly by removing any essence of “random” from the game since by watching the right addresses in RAM you can predict all sorts of things.
RAM watch grants knowledge that you otherwise wouldn't have access to, which in turn changes the way you'll play.
So yes, it absolutely does affect the game.
Insofar as notes, your point about being able to run a game with 0 knowledge provided you have thousands of lines of notes, that's true in theory, but do you really think it will be a GOOD run? Hesitation and menuing mistakes cost enough time in runs, let alone literally stopping what you're doing to locate a specific line in your notes and interpret the instructions.
In fact, lemme post an illustrative example; here are some snippets from two of my notes documents for Megaman Battle Network 3. Note the language I'm using here; these are SNIPPETS, a very brief look into the full note documents that I refer to very regularly throughout the run, and yes these are from two separate documents that I have open. These said note documents are also extremely brief and condensed compared to what they could potentially look like:
01697824 Copydamage 35331089 Unlocker 67918452 Fastgauge 77955025 Spinwhite 31549798 Spreader 15789208 Airshot 21247895 Hicannon 65497812 Salamander 88543997 Fountain 63997824 Varsword 03284579 Herosword 76889120 Stepcross
Flashman: Slot 2, 3, 14, 28 [Reg required]
Beastman: Slot 2, 3, 14, 28 [Reg required]
Wind *: HeroSword in Slot 10, Jack in, up-left, down, up, pick up BMD, bug Sneakrun, hard reset, audio cue, right. EARLY ENCOUNTER: Move left, 6 buster shots, move forward > up > double delete LATE ENCOUNTER: Move left, no buster, move forward > up > double delete
Bubbleman: Slot 1, 5, 6, 25, 29 [Reg required]
Kingman: Slot 3, 12, 15, 23 (STEPCROSS IN SLOT 8 ) [No Reg]
Desertman: Slot 3, 5, 13, 21 [No Reg]
Plantman: Slot 2, 3, 4, 5, 12 [No Reg]
Flamman: Slot 2, 3, 5, 9, 15, 23 [No Reg]
Copyman: Slot 1, 9, 12, 20, 25
Drillman: Slot 6, 17 [Reg required]
Bubbleman Alpha: Slot 6 for Varsword, slot 12/25 for Panelgrab [Reg required]
Desertman Alpha: Slots 2, 6 for Varsword, Slot 18 for Stepcross
Plantman Alpha: Varsword Slot 2, 6, 10, 13, 25
FlamMan Alpha: Varsword Slot 5, asterisks in slots 3, 11, 15, 23, 26, 29 Fullcust in slot 18, Stepcross in slot 20, herosword in slot 21
Drillman 2 Electric Boogaloo: Varsword slot 5, airshot slot 17
Bass: Slots 3, 6 varswords
Alpha: REG INVIS SLOT 28 Slots varsword 3, copydamage 11, airshot 21, pawn 27, Varsword 30
Turn 2: Slots herosword 4, stepcross 17
First document is a series of passwords to get the deck that I use through most of the game, second document is information on RNG manipulation. If you fancy getting through a game like this without having this sort of information to hand, I wish you the best of luck.
@Drakodan: That is a great example of a memorization/note heavy game. Still I assume that the Megaman BN3 run still needs much more skill beyond that (I don't know the game). TIS-100 really is just typing + menuing if memorization is taken out of the equation (which may be true for many puzzle games in some way or another).
@All: Thanks for the answers! I take it then that there is no doubt in the speedrunning community that notes should be allowed no matter what.
I 100% needed notes for monster hunter on my all key quests run lol things like where the monster will limp to/fly away to, where they even lurk and generally how many hits they take before cap/kill
Not to be controversial but this could be abused in some sense. Though the forum prohibits the use of software display that is unknown to the player, timing labels is one example I could think of that could be a determining factor. Say a game has a timing cycle, say a platforming like crash. The players knows the game started at say 3:44.000. However, timing a cycle every 7 seconds is very difficult to calculate. But with the use of prescripted code that prints in a notepad, a note could read 4:19, 4:26, 4:33. Timing such point would be relatively hard to memorize, especially while concentrating on different gameplay aspects. After all, a run where it's you start that level at about 4:20, it's very easy to read 4:26 and think of 4:26 + 0:01. Even adjusting for later times could be possible, even with varying starting times.
So, I get it how notepads nullify memorization in some games, but I wonder if this could give an unfair advantage to some players, who in the technical sense neither modified the game, nor used info unavailable to the player at the time of run gameplay.
The use of notes during speedruns is a contentious issue and can vary depending on the specific game, community, and speedrunning event.
In general, most speedrunning communities consider the use of notes during a run to be acceptable as long as they do not provide an unfair advantage over other players. For example, many games like adventure games or RPGs allow players to use notes to keep track of quest objectives or puzzle solutions, which can be helpful for keeping track of progress.
However, for games that are heavily based on memorization, like TIS-100, the use of notes may not be allowed. This is because the use of notes can significantly reduce the challenge and skill required to complete the game. The purpose of speedrunning these types of games is often to demonstrate mastery of the game mechanics and memory, and the use of notes can detract from this goal.
In the case of TIS-100, it would be up to the TIS-100 speedrunning community to determine whether or not the use of notes is allowed. If you are interested in speedrunning TIS-100, I would recommend reaching out to the community and asking for their guidelines and rules.
In general, there is no single guideline on how to handle notes during speedruns. It is up to each individual speedrunning community to determine what is and is not acceptable. The best course of action is to reach out to the community for the specific game you are interested in speedrunning and ask for their rules and guidelines.
I know this is a forum from 5 years ago some random guy necroposted 5 days ago but I just want to say it's a speedrun, not a test at school. Everything is allowed for speedrunning as long as you're not actually modifying the game or using hardware manipulation.
