I think we should have save states/restore points before the run. It would otherwise hold back VC players that can't play on DS. It has the same effect as the internal time change so there's no point in banning it.

If you break down OG manipulation and VC manipulation to the most basic terms, you’re basically changing the “frame” in which the game is currently on to the same value every time and playing in a very specific manner, albeit via different means(messing with the system clock vs. booting up a save state). The only difference here is this: when/how the RNG is determined.

On OG, the RNG value is determined by when the game is selected on the device’s menu(down to several frames). This input alone is a relatively precise one and it seems to be a trouble to many people, and the only way to mitigate this element of human error is to know which set of seeds give you which outcome and adjust accordingly(what HelixFossil and I do). On VC, I’d imagine the game runs slightly differently and the RNG seems to be determined down to several frames as well, except on the game/file select instead of the device’s menu(my speculation from what I’ve heard about VC so far; if the RNG advancement is the same as the OG, then I assume the consistency of manip would be 100%. Confirmation needed from VC runners). Either way, save state doesn’t seem to guarantee a 100% working manipulation to our knowledge, and it requires an input with a window of several frames.

I apologize for the long-winded post, but let me clarify my point. I’m not saying that VC manip should be legal because the difficulty of it isn’t that much different from OG; instead, I’d like to think that questioning its legality is a tad ridiculous from a technical standpoint. What both OG/VC manip does is, simply put, setting the RNG to the same value(or at least attempting to) at some point before the opening cutscene starts to play. I see that some people are simply not ok with using save states due to the unwritten rules of speedrunning, and it is very much a fair point, but in what way is it different from messing with the DS’s internal clock? You’re booting up a game in a same state for both cases, after all. This is just my two cents anyway. It’s hard to be unbiased about this since I only run on the original, but I’ve been thinking about this topic for the longest of time, and I’d like to think that my idea serves as a fair middle ground for balancing between being inclusive vs. keeping the integrity of the boards.

Thank you

I’m still new to RNG manip, but I’m pretty sure that it does work 100% of the time, as long as you play 1-1 correctly (The right amount of double/triple jumps, blocks hit, etc.).

And I know my biased opinion doesn’t matter, but I obviously think it should be allowed lol.

We have decided to allow this method of RNG manipulation. Thanks for the input, everyone!