Any % route improvements and discussion
9 years ago
Virginia, USA

Hmm...I was able to do 5 activities to level 6 but if we do that mission, I'm guessing all of CC will be able to be skipped.

If this works, my guess for the beginning is this: Jailbreak Appointed Defender Suburb Race Down Payment Revelation (look for tornado while in Police Station here) Buy car IF (get chopper, if no tornado) Either FC or Snatch, depending on chopper strats.

The other activities should probably be FC at ultor dome (if the prison one isn't done) and/or demo derby. Demo derby should definitely be done when doing the University stronghold for the samedi, though. There's usually no need to be in that district at all.

I think that strats can change dramatically if we wind up with the tornado but that's a whole other discussion and we should proceed assuming we don't get that spawn.

England

I get to level 9 18 missions from the end I do 16 of them on the remaining 10 I have after finishing fight club and I can comfortable keep respect going up gain levels on gun streaks until I finish Ultor . I get a taxi to Crowd control near the shopping mall Ultor stronghold do 3 levels of that getting the final 4 levels needed then go to the end finishing the run with zero levels to spare.

I left the fight club until then as it is located very close to the foreign power so I buy the cars discard them all then do the fight club with the 45% boost. Is it possible to do with level 7 or 8 maybe but I was worried of being caught short near the end and not having the respect level for Ultor 1.

Virginia, USA

@SOB, Interesting. That does seem like it would at the very least be more consistent. That's probably a good way to do it, if only for that. I was also thinking maybe do the first 2 in the factories since it's pretty easy to get that done there. And then move to the airport so you don't have to fly back to be in the area initially. We'll have to do some good testing to find what's best here.

That's also a good point about resetting. I can imagine it'd get frustrating but I THINK the Fuzz will get super easy with a tornado. Basically just go blow everything up super quick. Probably the same with mayhem.

Also, idk about you guys, but mayhem took a decent amount of time for all 6 levels. Definitely over the 15 mins it took me for CC. I could have just been not in a good area but I tried to do the one on the southern island an stay in the china town area.

One question for both of you, too. What platforms are you running on? I'll be doing this on the 360 but if we'll be comparing times between console and PC, it'd be good to make sure times can sync up correctly.

Virginia, USA

I did some testing with Revelations. I'm having some more doubts after this too. The time it takes to get from starting the first wiretap to getting dex's number is 1:45. Revelations took me exactly 8 minutes. That didn't count the few deaths I had due to attack choppers or the time to go from the police station to the mission start. Revelations also takes 1 level of respect. Basically, this sounds like it's riskier and needs to provide at least a full 6 levels of an activity to be worth it, since it'd take just about as long to do the activities. This is especially true since we can do 2 activities and then buy the car we want to boost all the rest.

I did some math and please let me know if it makes sense... I'm basing things off of what I've already seen in my 1 actual run. I did 5 sets of activities + 1 level of another and that let me beat the game, but I'll just round that to 5 because I like the idea of doing the race for the first level of respect.

Also assume that we buy a car after the first 2 activities (we'll have enough and if the second activity is FC, we'll be at the ultor dome, right next to Foreign Power). The respect we gain is: 52500 ¤ 2 = 105000 65625 ¤ 3 = 196875 Total: 301875

If we do Revelations, I'm assuming we only need to do 4 activities since this needs to replace 1 set with the time it takes to complete. 68250 ¤ 4 = 273000

We'll get close but still not surpass it, leaving a lot of respect we'll need to make up. Considering the risk of death is far greater in Revelations and we don't come out ahead anyway, I don't see it as a decent option. Even considering we can get awesome strats for Revelations, it still won't be enough to justify doing it over an activity. It's pretty far out of the way, take a decent amount of time, and is riskier. It'd be a better idea to get to the Prison for FC there or do some mayhem, IMO.

I still haven't looked at the Insurance Fraud strats to actually time it but I feel like that'll definitely be something we want to do anyway, if only for the early heli. I'm still planning on doing that testing but it may not get done tonight. If not tonight, then definitely tomorrow.

Virginia, USA

So I've actually done some...not very thorough tests on IF as well. I completed all 6 levels of IF using the airport strats. The biggest thing I could find was that it is probably faster except for RNG. RNG screwed me and I had over 10 minutes on starting level 5. What killed it was having to fly to the Saints Row district and back. That's about a minute, right there. I also had a problem a few times with nothing spawning. Sometimes it'd take a minute or 2 for anything usable.

My strats, though, involved stealing the snipes, getting it to the level of the control tower and then just jumping backwards to land by the snipes again. Consistent 50k, if not ~100k All in all, each jump took less than 30s.

I think that, if we're going for just till level 3, we do the first 2 levels in the factories, since that's where we start, restarting till we get that district, and then the 3rd in the airport. After lvl 3, take the heli there back to the hideout, and we can use that for both snatch and for three kings, or whatever mission we want.

Take all this with a grain of salt, though. I haven't tested it too much and these are all just initial reactions. I don't want to say it's no good without giving it a little more time.

England

The way I normally route games that are longish single segment runs is on high consistency strats. I put some thought into what would be my route if I was doing it as a segmented run or reset heavy single segment. The only issue with the route is getting the tornado spawn it is seemingly somewhere around a 10-20% spawn the question comes is the fast route worth the high reset count 17 or so mins in to a 5-6 hour run and from what I see the answer is properly that it is. The tornado from the start of the game is so huge I would give up unlimited Gal for the Kobras (not much of a downgrade anyway) as I feel Sub 5 becomes a real possibility.

Something like:

S1, S2 get 1 level of respect (possibly doing the race twice), S3, Insurance fraud 3 levels so you get 3 respect, either ending by harrow gate police department or taxi there listen to the wire taps get Dex’s number, get the tornado save it, Do S4 in tornado, Then Samedi 1 (in tornado if possible) after mission call Dex taxi to the church, Revelations then buy car for level 6 respect boost. From there I would do whatever activity get you unlimited ammo the quickest so I would assume fuzz in Tornado then prison fight club save warp after get unlimited ammo weapon and go on with missions from there.

Virginia, USA

Idk why I didn't think of getting in the APC That could help. It was just that the chopper tore me up so badly. That's where the multiple deaths came from.

Your video was also running a little bit faster than my game is so the time will be slightly off. I could imagine using the APC would cut about a minute, maybe 2, off of my time. (because my time didn't include the deaths) We can take my total time down to about 8 minutes for the wiretaps and the mission itself

Regardless, doing Revelations requires a level of respect, which would take time to get, and it still takes about as long as, say, the other FC, or mayhem. You'd come out behind, overall, in respect earned, and the travel time it takes to get to the Police Station could be negligible compared with the time it takes to get to another activity. That "lost" respect will still need to be earned, taking more time.

Although....maybe if we're only doing IF till level 3, that's how we'll get the "lost" respect and then we'll have to do 4 activities besides it.

Even then, I still see it as more of a time sink, then a time saver but...time for some math!

Without Revelations: 5 activities. (avg of ~12 mins) - 60 mins 52500 ¤ 2 = 105000 65625 ¤ 3 = 196875 Total: 301875

With revelations: 4 activities + Revelations + 3 levels of IF (48+8+4) - about 60 mins 68250 ¤ 4 = 273000 24050 ¤ 1 = 24050 Total: 297050

This is making a couple of assumptions. The first is that we only do IF until level 3 and that we don't count driving time to get to the airport, since we'll be doing that in each case. We also won't have infinite sprint but I hope that upgraded sprint will be enough that it won't cost time. The avg activity time is used based on my runs (not counting my horrid snatch time).

Now the difference between respect is not that huge and can easily be made up by respect on the side.

I wish I had some more solid numbers for activities. Maybe I'll work on that next so we can make a more detailed analysis.

Let me know what you think about this!

I was seriously hoping that snatch would be better with a heli too.

The only thing I'd be wary about with the tornado is that it's so rare and I'd hate resetting 9 out of 10 runs, 15-30 mins in just for it. It'd definitely be faster, that's without a doubt. When using it, I feel like...maybe instead of CC/FC, do both mayhems (or fuzz if that's faster too, but i doubt it)

Virginia, USA

After thinking about it...

The tornado is a must. It'll save so much time in so many places. Not just activities, but missions as well. And if we're going for the tornado, we should go for Revelations too. It cuts down on activity time and we're already at the Police Station. The tornado can even (probably) be used to speed up the mission, making it that much better anyway.

You're right about the Kobras too. They tear apart vehicles so they're pretty good for everything.

EDIT: http://saintsrow.wikia.com/Tornado That page has a strategy for a tornado spawn. "A good strategy for forcing a Tornado to spawn is to enter the Police Headquarters and listen to all the wiretaps and obtain Dex's phone number. Without calling Dex, immediately vacate the headquarters through the heliport exit, and a Tornado should be sitting on the helipad. In the unlikely event that this does not work, reload an earlier save and try again."

That's pretty much what you did in the video you posted. We should confirm this :)

I'm even wondering if the fact that you go into the Police Station, out of view of the helipad, is enough.

Virginia, USA

Hahaha glad we're on the same page! It seems like the first hour or so is coming together so I'm getting really excited. I love the idea of the tornado cause this can definitely be a sub 5 run in the end, withit. Maybe even without it, but it'll be easier.

3 Kings, easy. I haven't tried yet but I'm imagining we can pick up pierce, destroy the samedi, pick up shaundi, fly through the markers, pick up carlos, do his bit. Should be super quick now. Probably half the time it was. I imagine there'll be more missions like that too.

England

I ran going to the tornado 20 or so times to see what the spawn rate is and from the looks of it, it isn't great. I saw it spawn 1 time so I’m starting to think it may be as low as 5%. Another thing I didn’t see any evidence that checking during each tap rerolled the spawn if it didn’t spawn when checked during the first wire tap it never did in the following 3 checks it is hard to distinguish if the reroll was happening or not further testing is need for that but it is not like we lose time checking anyway and it seemed to reroll in SOB revelations strat vid so we can hope we need every bit of it for that spawn lol.

My only suggestion is to tweak the route so it is more resets friendly To S1, S2 1 level gain, S3 then go to police station listen to wiretaps and look for the tornado. If it is there fly back and save it then fly it to Insurance fraud which has the 3 upsides in that resets come quicker 15mins rather than 23-24mins, it can be used to fly to the airport on the first level saving time that way and the save warp after Insurance fraud goes straight to S4.

Couple of other things call Dex as soon as you get in the tornado it seems that it is possible for his number to be deleted from your phone before it is called and Insurance fraud doesn’t give you 3 levels like I thought it give you high two but doing S4 and Samedi 1 consistently got me the third level needed for Revelations.

England

Thats great news that it rerolls it should cut down resets. Quick question by walking into the police station does it count as entering from the heli pad or does it have to be the front door? I can't find any info on spawn/despawn radii.

Honestly once we get the first hour routed the rest will just be logic and will fall into the place. My old route for the mission will probery be there or there abouts just switching Rebadeaux Septic Avenger for Demo derby which links with the next part of University stronghold anyway and maybe moving a mission or 2 about and it will be done.

England

On the flash bangs if we do the race twice as the method to get the level of respect needed you will have $2500-$2850 after so you could get 10 if you wanted on the drive to clearing out the shanties.

On the Tornado after an hour and a half I have found a way to get the spawn to happen. get a heli (thinking of a Horizon after Insurance fraud) land it on the roof nest to the heli pad walk up to the doors going into the police station facing them then turn around if the Tornado hasn't spawned get back in the Horizon fly over the water until all the red dots on the mini map in the police station disappear then repeat the process of landing walking up to the doors and turning around and eventfully the Tornado will be there.

The spawn rate will still be low it is just the best way of rerolling the spawns I found. So on the first time land and do the wiretap strats if you don’t get it use the Horizon method. Obviously Insurance Fraud goes back before the wiretaps again.

Virginia, USA

It would just be nicer to do IF after the wiretaps, I think. I think I'm going to try and find another route but that might be the best shot we got to reroll. I'll spend a little bit today getting something together and maybe I'll have a different strat. It's good if nothing else. Might waste some time but we have to find what causes the reroll. Maybe it's even as simple as flying back and forth and we don't have to get out of the heli at all.

Virginia, USA

Holy crap...important note (I think). I tried for about an hour with NO luck. No matter what I tried, I couldn't get the tornado to load. Then I removed all xbox patches and tried again. First time, after doing the wiretaps, I got the tornado. I think this means that if you ever play on the xbox, make sure you have the patches removed.

Removing the patches will also make a few missions easier since enemy tornadoes won't fire missiles at you.

I'm hope that this was the cause because if it takes, on average, an hour to to get a tornado, this'll get annoying.

England

I removed the patches and got it on my first try as well I only tried it once, in my time comparison run, but I did get it first time as well so there may be some hope for the increased spawn. Other side effects I got from removing the patch were less frame rate issues on the water part of the jail break (hopefully The Enemy of my Enemy is also going to be improved it was basically a slide show making the mission 3 or so mins longer than it could be), the lack of missiles shot by Tornados as you mentioned and also there is less of a delay when get vehicles from my garage, sometime I would have to select the car 4 or 5 time before it was there, and them repairing all of the time rather just some of the time.

I played up to after completing fight club and the run itself was a pretty good run could maybe get 2 or 3mins quicker, without route improvements just on playing skill. Comparing it to the route I use for my 5:31 IGT PB it was 2mins faster but I have 3 more levels of respect than at the same point and the rewards are better with The Tornado saved, upgraded sprint and unlimited Kobra’s instead of no saved heli, would be waiting for the oppressor in 4 or so missions time, no sprint upgrade and unlimited Gal’s.

One issue I ran into was during Fuzz between each level and with each gun request from the camera man the Tornado’s mini gun and missile would stop working I found that continuously shooting the mini gun as soon as I finished an objective would most of the time stop them disabling for gun requests but between levels I would have to land exit then enter to get them back working. Is this a normal issue and if so is there a better work around than what I have found?

Virginia, USA

You're probably right about confirmation bias. I just tried again. Takes 15 mins to get to the end of Down Payment for me. Definitely reset worthy if we don't get the tornado. My strategy that got me the tornado this time and last was to go immediately afterwards, before even checking at all, go in and do the wiretaps. I think you should be able to leave but I never left the room. Kill cops or wait. Then, once you have dex's number, go upstairs and it's there! At least...there's a better chance. That, I'm fairly sure of. I did it a few more times today. 2/4 times, it was there.

I was wondering if it'd take longer to do septic avenger or not. But then I decided even if it's quicker, the race is a better idea because you keep the cop car you get for appointed defender. It's a quick car and making sure you have it early would probably be a better idea, all around.

As for the Fuzz thing, I didn't have an issue with it. They cleared the guns on the tornado between levels but I just had to reselect them and it was alright.

As for parachuting, I've heard it was pretty difficult but I haven't tried, myself.

Virginia, USA

This might be a long shot...but would the number of saves you have (either with or without a tornado) affect their spawn rate? I just deleted all my saves again and got one my first try. It's just a theory right now but...idk. It's possible?

England

Ok tried to use the old route and it became apparent very quickly that it will have to be completely redone to accommodate the Tornado. There will be a lot of save warping back to the crib to collect the Tornado and finding ways of keeping it from being destroyed. Also the taxi is going to be used pretty sparingly now.

Also I found that having flash bangs speeds up the mission Veteran Child so it could be worthwhile making the stop to buy then on the way to destroying the shanties. We never have opportunity to have grenades anyway so it is not like we are sacrificing that slot.

England

What I'm saying is that if we get them for the shanties it would be worth stocking up on them at that time as for that mission you could use the leftovers to save a bit of time. Rather than scrambling back and forth to pick them up, as they only let you take one at a time and you may have to move you position to avoid be affected by the flash bang yourself, you will already 3 or 4 of them on you and you can take a position to throw the next one while shooting him. It is only saving seconds but those seconds could be the justification to stop or not. If it is determined that there is a better way of destroying the shanties and the stop at the gun shop is not needed for that of course we can just use the spawned ones provided but if we are buying them anyway the few extras can save a bit of time in this mission aswell.

Virginia, USA

So from the 3 or 4 tries I had this worked every time. I deleted all my saves and retried everything from the start until the end of Down Payment, saving my cop car from Appointed Defender. I took that over to the police station, went straight into the wiretaps, killed cops all the while, got dex's number, and went straight to the helipad. Every time the tornado was there, waiting.

This isn't 100% confirmed cause it's only been a handful of tries but it seems to definitely be reset-worthy. I'm gonna try some different things now, timing different activities with the tornado and trying to see just how useful it is in missions. Specifics need to get ironed out but this is definitely gonna happen now.

Also, just for completeness, this was the unpatched 360 version. No idea how it is on PC.

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