Endless combo fix - Leaderboard discussion
3 years ago
Maryland, USA

As you already may know, the switch release of Panel de Pon has corrected an issue with combos awarding over 30,000 points in endless mode if they are over 32 combos.

Obviously this brings up the issue of different versions of this game affecting the leaderboards.

I don't want to have this game split into two different games, since the only mode affected by this is really just Endless mode, however, I do think that it is important to have a way to distinguish between the two versions on the leaderboard.

I have thought of a few options, as well as received a few already in Discord.

Option 1: Split the current endless leaderboard into glitched/nonglitched (combo/non-combo; pre-patch/post-patch; etc...). Effectively creating 2 leaderboards for each difficulty and each score goal (30,000/99,999)

Option 2: Add a variable to show whether or not the glitch was used or prepatch/postpatch was used. This will keep the leaderboards together, however, since using combos has been demonstrated to be MUCH faster, using the post-patch version is probably not recommended.

Option 3: Change nothing. Other games with glitches that prove to be faster on earlier versions (e.g. A link to the past) have not split the lb, and instead just recommended that runners use the version with the glitches. Since the pre-patch version is the most commonly emulated one on the leaderboards, it is unlikely that this will affect much.

Let me know what you think, and if there are any other ways that you think of that you think we can use.

Razorflame likes this
Missouri, USA

We already have a split Endless leaderboard. The no combo glitch side is Tetris Attack and we can adjust that ruleset to allow all PDP runs that do not use the glitched combos as the runs are functionally the same.

Razorflame likes this
Wisconsin, USA

After talking about it on the Discord, I'm more of in the camp of change nothing for the Endless leaderboards. It's very easy to get the ROM and the right emulator to play the pre-patch version without too many issues.

Maryland, USA

I'm not in the camp of splitting leaderboards, but I also don't really want to just move PdP runs over to the tetris attack leaderboard either...

Razorflame likes this
Wisconsin, USA

Another option we have is to make category extensions and just put the two Endless categories there.

Maryland, USA

I'm leaning toward having glitched and glitchless leaderboards. The reason for this is if you look at the current leaderboards, all runs but 2 are glitchless. I think this is probably because endless has always been sort of a 'chain exhibition' mode where it can really showcase your chaining ability and it is essentially rendered useless by the ability to just get 3 big combos and have maxout score. I think the glitch really defeats the purpose for the category, however, it is also a speedrunning leaderboard, and pushing the time down it really what it is all about. In the interest of having both options, I think this is the best way forward.

Razorflame likes this
Missouri, USA

So what would make this Glitchless category different from the regular Tetris Attack category? I originally split the games because multiple game modes had enough differences between both versions that made their speedruns different and I did not want to clutter one board with that many subcategories. You should notice, however, that there is no Stage Clear leaderboard for this version. There are no known speedrun differences between the two versions so that board stayed with the Tetris Attack board that was created first.

So why not allow "glitchless" runs in the Tetris Attack category when there is precedent with Stage Clear? What makes their speedruns different?

Maryland, USA

We have discussed it thoroughly, and after considering all inputs, we have decided that it's best to leave the category as it is.

The glitch is allowed in all endless leaderboards, and is easily the most optimal strategy. If a glitchless endless mode run is what you would like to do, and have that be a competitive strategy, Tetris Attack is functionally the same, and the glitch is no longer present in the base game. We will not be adding a glitchless leaderboard.

Additionally, endless speedruns utilizing Panel de Pon are valid to be submitted to the Tetris Attack leaderboard as long as the 32-combo glitch is not utilized.