Grenade Launcher tool for runs and changes in the moderation of RE3
Deleted
4 years ago
United Kingdom

Yes it would be possible to create a magnum tool if there was a demand for it (There might already be one?).

I think GL/Magnum RNG is slightly different then the rest of the RNG in the game because it is the only one in the game that changes the category you are running. We don't have categories like "any% 2 cycle worm" or "any% early powders". Really the main any% category is "any% no magnum" lets be honest. If you upload a run there that uses the magnum, I would question why you would not just submit it under magnum%.

The GL tool is more for trying to control what category you are doing then trying to control what RNG you get, if that makes any sense. You are not trying to control the time you get, you are controlling what category you are playing and who you compete against.

Edited by the author 4 years ago
Japan

If you create a new category called "Grenade launcher only" and use the Grenade Launcher tool in that category, there is no reason to oppose using this tool, and it will be the fastest category of Resident Evil3 I think that is reasonable.

However, I think it is an illusion that the use of this tool prevents frequent resets.

Even under the same condition that only Grenade launcher is available, there are several RNG in Resident Evil3 that can greatly affect the time and sometimes frustrate them.

I hope that the decision to enable the Grenade Launcher tool is based on a long-term view that doesn't sacrifice the gameplay of Resident Evil3.

wolfdnc, RebeccaRE, and Anacharial like this
Missouri, USA

i am 100% for the GL tool

United Kingdom

Forcing GL/Magnum is probably akin to a Cheat Engine script. Same kinda thing that enables randomizers in a lot of these games. It'll just force the locker item to whatever value the GL falls under, if I had to guess. Whenever you enter the room the game will choose one of the random values, so the script or "mod" will just lock the value into being one of the two (GL) after the fact.

Making a magnum tool would really be as simple as just changing whatever value is being forced, into the opposite value (the Magnum). This isn't a mod, it's the equivalent of booting CE, finding the address, manually changing it and locking it in place using CE. Realistically speaking, if the address was posted here for the Locker item, people could do this already without the need for waiting for any kind of mod/script development.

If the view was always 'magnum is a separate category', I don't understand why Any% wasn't renamed ages ago. Going forward it might be better to just do that. Out of all of the things discussed here, "Magnum is a separate category from Any%" implying you can't use Magnum for Any% runs is definitely the most confusing.

Edited by the author 4 years ago
allancg, wolfdnc, and RebeccaRE like this
United States

Hmm this discussion again huh, back then it was voted for no, now I am guessing top tier runners wants less resets so that is why we are having this convo again huh ? When can I get early powders always only mode for nemesis% ? :) ALSO SRT is already "cheating" isn't it? Ain't we accessing the memory of the game to see what we are not suppose to? OMEGALUL

Edited by the author 4 years ago
WitchRain and MikeGedge like this

@Liv I'd just like to contribute to your post saying that the current GL tool that is being used by runners doesn't work by forcing locker to contain GL, but it instead scan you inventory for a Magnum and if it does, changes "item id" (or whatever its called) to the one correspondent to a GL (which imho seems way healthier since it would clearly be noticeable on video). To my knowledge, this tool was created by Orchlon over a year ago and he said in his stream that he does not have acess to the source code anymore, so if somehow we'd like to create a Magnum Tool we'd couldn't just edit the existing one, but would have to create it from scratch, but yeah it'd be the exact same code we'd just have to switch the GL id to whatever id corresponds to Magnum.

Spain

Ah, the slippery slope of PC speedrunning.

I understand why some active runners want it because it must be really annoying to get a really good start (basement lol) and just get denied by a such a "flip a coin" decision the game makes.

But again, was ever letting the SRT with health bars and all the fancy shit fair to begin with? I don't know but in any case an "easy" solution would be to create an unique category for the mod and that's it.

wolfdnc and allancg like this
Venezuela

@MoeMoe_7 this thread should be already blocked, i mean, there's a google form, there's nothing to say here, if someone wants to talk about this, they can go to the re3 discord.

Pennsylvania, USA

I don't run RE3, but I do plan on running it in the future. Just throwing this out there, why not make a sort of "tournament mode" category where RNG is fixed for everything and then just leave Any% as it is? Then you'd have your competitive category, and your "untouched any%" category, so to speak.

MikeGedge, keny, and Roxy_Rose like this
Missouri, USA

@WitchRain mainly because none of the active runners or potentially active runners such as myself want the rest of the RNG to be effected. the adaptation to the RNG in a run is what makes re3 unique as a speedgame. the main goal is to just eliminate monotonous resets

William_Neves likes this
Ireland

i agree with witchrain's statement completely. makes total sense to have that category

keny likes this
United States

@zenix Exactly my point people that say they don't want this because "cheating" but they use SRT is a big LOL as that already is cheating, and making another board is not what they want, the purpose of this is for the top runners to get WR faster and in less resets that is needed.

Ontario, Canada

Haven't posted here since the last fiasco we had over this but I don't mind recompiling the 1.3 build I initially proposed if that's the way the scale swings.

I believe there is a Memory based tool out there already floating around, and I to have noticed its been in use for quite some time already.. The difference with my implementation was simply manipulating the games if/else logic in the STARS room and actually changing the item before its obtained, its not an inventory memory hack, or even memory related at all.... There is a significant difference between editing memory values in RAM and manipulating the games actual source code before its even processed, felt the need to make that more transparent =]

wolfdnc likes this
Mongolia

Having all the RNG locked would be boring and take away what makes RE3 a great speedgame. Most of us just want the GL RNG locked because it's stupid, boring, and causes unnecessary resets. Every other RNG in the game is fun to play against. If the stars office had the GL every time, but there was a room before it filled with hunters that with good execution caused runners to lose on average 50% of their runs, nobody would be asking to mod it because it would be fun RNG to play against, even if mathematically they would be equivalent.

giaNco, ChuvaKO and 3 others like this
Japan

I think @ WitchRain's opinion is very reasonable. I think it would be better to clearly distinguish between categories that controlled RNG and categories that did not control RNG at all.

Is GL only the problem? Is it possible to say that you've never had a rough voice saying that this game is shit with a time loss in RNG other than GL?

wolfdnc likes this
Argentina

I'm not a RE 3 runner, but i watch a lot of RE 3 runners and i'm familiarizaded with all this thing of the GLtool, and my question is, why not make a "GLtool" category? that way the Any% would remain intact, and those runners who want to make a more faster run of the game can migrate to the new category. Many people argue that the problem is that the magnum its not a viable option to do a good time in the game, but i think this is due to how the runs where optimized in all this time; before a magnum would be a option, but not now because the runs must be very optimized to get a good time, but the same can be say about others RNG; i think this are the consecuenses of optimizing much the times of the game.

Edited by the author 4 years ago
keny and allancg like this
Ceará, Brazil

A yes/no filter should suffice that better in the case where you get a magnum and the tool is used, this can be easily implemented for all categories and I believe that runners wouldnt bother really much with this.

Edited by the author 4 years ago
Ireland

I see a lot of people having the arguement of "Letting the game chose the category you're running" Magnum% was originally added so people didn't have to reset based on the weapon they get in the locker. You can also pick up the GL later on in the run at the cost of time, just like every other element of bad RNG is, a time loss.

wolfdnc likes this
Japan

In the situation without GL Tool, when aiming for Any% personal best update, if Magnum comes out, it will reset without hesitation.

On the other hand, what about after getting GL?

Whether or not to reset the appearance of RNG that adversely affects time depends on the following considerations.

1. Opportunity to recover from time loss due to RNG is it left?

  1. If you reset, you won't know when you can get the next GL. Whether you have enough time remaining.

If you have less chances of recovery and want to start over and aim for a better RNG, it will reset, otherwise it will continue the game.

What about GL Tool?

Wouldn't it be easier to decide that it is better to start over the bad RNG than to continue the game?

For RNG other than GL / Magnum, it is easier to predict that resetting will occur more frequently with GL Tool.

If you use a tool that has a big impact on your game strategy, isn't it natural to think that you need to categorize it without using it?