Cheat% discussion.
2 years ago
California, USA

I think we need to discuss the use of outside resources for cheat%. the common consensus is that the cheats allowed are the ones that the developers put in the game intentionally. That being said there are gamesharks for PlayStation that unlocks potential for faster cheat% runs. I think we as a community should discuss the use of these cheating methods and come to a consensus as to whether or not we want to allow them, and subsequently make that clear in the submission rules. So, what does everyone think?

I doubt most people will agree with you. But if enough people ran and recorded categories “with cheats”, they could possibly be added to the CE boards. Cheat% itself doesn’t actually change much with cheats like flying and moon jump because given rat proxy, the only time cheats like those can save is entering the gnasty portal faster and can only save like 5 seconds. So I doubt that would ever become a category

Edited by the author 2 years ago
Colorado, USA

This might be the hottest take of the century.

aldeezy1, indoorrliving and 2 others like this
California, USA

I never shared my opinion, so i'm not sure what you mean by people disagreeing with me. I just brought it up for discussion. I also didn't advocate for a new category i wanted to see how the community feels about it's use in cheat% specifically.

Marsh_GL likes this

I just assumed that since you brought it up that you were in favor of including such cheats in the category. My bad if that’s not the case. Either way, the thing that makes cheat% unique is that it is broken down to “any%, no restrictions”, including the use of in game cheats, because they are written into the games code. It’s not necessarily the intended way like any%, but the whole point of the category is just that: you beat the game as fast as possible using whatever means possible without actually using external methods like gameshark. If gameshark cheats were included, all it would do is save 5 seconds, remove essentially all challenge from the run, and simply open the door to people asking why there isn’t just an in game cheat% to begin with, which is what we already have. If gameshark were to become allowed at all, I feel pretty safe in assuming it would simply create a new category on the CE boards, and only if enough people ran it.

I get what your saying, though. Cheat% might imply reason for any type of cheat if they’re available. Perhaps some might suggest, “a cheat is a cheat, right?”

That’s why I think the name is somewhat misleading tho. The point of the category when it was created was what I mentioned above: beat the game as fast as possible, using all methods the game provides. The objective was not built around the use of cheats, but rather it was formed around the fact that the game code allows for a faster way than any%. Otherwise, rather than being called cheat%, it would probably hold the name “any% with cheats”, or “cheat% with cheats”.

takevfive likes this

There's a special place in hell for speedrunners who cheat in children's game

rainbowcorgo, indoorrliving and 6 others like this
Ontario, Canada

"That being said there are gamesharks for PlayStation that unlocks potential for faster cheat% runs". You mean, editing your next zone to the credits? Literally start the game and then end time? What is the point in speedrunning when you can edit the memory however you want? If you want specific cheats, like HK is saying, we have that. For example, sparxless 120 uses a gameshark code.

takevfive likes this
California, USA

That's the thing HK, as of now the official rules don't mention "without actually using external methods" so if everyone is in agreement, we should add it to the rules. Like you said, a new category would be barren, there arent alot of gamesharks out there from what i understand so getting runners for it would hard for that fact alone.

Zachary, if it is possible to put in a code to credit warp that would be pretty broken, but im sure such a code would be against the rules as that would be a pretty pointless run to watch. Again, my part in bringing this all up was to look at the current rules of cheat% and discuss a revision.

Edited by the author 2 years ago
Colorado, USA

Yes, it does. There's a link to General Rules and it's number 6 on there. Also, imagine allowing SOME gameshark cheats but not the ones that are TOO fast.

VI. Cheating and Consequences • A submission is considered cheated when the player uses the following methods in the submission: - In-game cheat codes, unless the category requires it or the cheat is purely cosmetic - Manipulating the in-game timer - Cheating devices, i.e. GameShark, Action Replay, Game Genie, etc. - Any emulator-specific functions, i.e. save states, frame limiter, overclocking, etc. - Tools to combine segments of runs or attempts - Claiming a run by another player as their own • Any submission using such methods will be rejected or removed. If a player submits additional cheated runs, all of their runs will be removed from these leaderboards and, if they have runs on leaderboards outside of the Spyro series, those leaderboard moderators will be contacted.

Edited by the author 2 years ago
takevfive likes this
United Kingdom

General submission rules state you can't use cheating devices. It's already very nonambiguous. https://www.speedrun.com/spyro/thread/1t226

edit: sniped :/

Edited by the author 2 years ago
California, USA

Well, I certainly feel silly for missing that, I guess this is a moot point then. I do feel we should state in the cheat% rules that cheating devices aren't allowed. I hope y'all have a great day and sorry for wasting anyone's time.

Colorado, USA

It is stated there, you just didn't read the rules lol

zachary likes this
California, USA

I meant when you click the rules button on the leaderboard page. It should state it right there clearly in my opinion.

Edit: in the category rules*

Edited by the author 2 years ago
Colorado, USA

Cool opinion. They've got it set up this way for a reason. Just because it's not the way you like it doesn't mean the situation you described isn't covered. External cheating devices are still against the rules even if you have to click a link to read the full rules.

Maybe you could go harass the mods at https://www.speedrun.com/darksouls since they do the same thing!

Pianoman7117 likes this
Ontario, Canada

The rules really don't need to cover everything. Common sense and general submission rules should be adhered to. See: https://www.speedrun.com/knowledgebase/site-rules if you are unfamiliar.

Surrey, England

@Towerizer you're not wasting people's time for wanting clarification on something deemed "common sense", not everyone is as well-versed in the reasoning and ruling and threads like these are important to clear things up! :)

Marsh_GL, SorryDeadCat, and hopKid like this
Ontario, Canada

I didn't say Tower was wasting anyone's time or referring to what they were asking as "common sense". If anything, they're wasting their own time by asking for rules to be clarified before reading them. And common sense refers to me saying "we don't need everything in the rules". For example, uhhh your spyro speedrun cannot be a video of someone else's crash run, that sort of thing. If we all considered this a waste of time, we wouldn't put effort into responding, especially with links to series and site-wide rules.

Surrey, England

@zacharylawrence I know you didn't say that, I was referring to Tower's comment

Towerizer likes this
Greater Manchester, England
Marsh_GL
Any/All, He/Him, She/Her, They/Them, It/Its
2 years ago

Meh, gotta say that I feel like some people here were a little douchy to a person who simply had a question and wanted clarification.

shempmd, GingeSwagTia and 4 others like this
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