The Site forum - Famicom games that should be categorized in FC instead of NES

Edited by the author 1 year ago

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Jubilee

She/Her

there's tons of little errors in games, similar to these, that I see all the time and want to nit-pick. but, you'd have to reach out to every mod to change smth about one game lol

Edited by the author 1 year ago

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Pear

He/Him

If you’re so inclined, just write a little message saying that the system should be changed from NES to FC and put that in the forum for each of these games.

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Laxxus 1 year ago

There shouldn't be a Famicom category to begin with. No reason to divide into NES and Famicom. (and there used to be no FC category until recently which is why it has almost no games in it)

Also without looking through all of it you definitely list games that were on NES as well, like Kabuki Quantum Fighter.

Edited by the author 1 year ago

https://www.nintendo.com/whatsnew/ask-the-developer-vol-2-nintendo-switch-oled-model-part-1/#:~:text=The%20Family%20Computer%20(Famicom)%20was%20released%20in%20North%20America%20as%20the%20Nintendo%20Entertainment%20System%20(NES). https://iwataasks.nintendo.com/interviews/wii/mario25th/4/0/#:~:text=Family%20Computer%20System%20(Famicom)%20and%20the%20Nintendo%20Entertainment%20System%20(NES)

There shouldn't be a Famicom category to begin with. No reason to divide into NES and Famicom.

Just gonna point out a few things

Out of the 1,060 Famicom games listed on Wikipedia, 674 of them never released on NES which is over 50% of the entire Famicom library
Treating Famicom and NES games as the same thing causes confusion as to what actually released on NES and what released on Famicom, for example you wouldn't call Famicom Wars an NES game right?
Nintendo themselves has treated both systems as separate consoles, reading the various descriptions for the few Famicom games on the NES Nintendo Switch Online app clearly notes that games like DAIVA STORY 6, Ninja JaJaMaru-kun, and TwinBee are Famicom games. Not to mention the various developer interviews on Nintendo's official website clearly denotes the Famicom and NES as being separate.

btw I was actually going to send a ticket about this on the Support Hub but the character limit prevented me from dumping all 195 links so that's why this forum post even exists

Edited by the author 1 year ago

Ivory, jackzfiml and 3 others like this

Also without looking through all of it you definitely list games that were on NES as well

Apologies for that, I've removed the link to Kabuki Quantum Fighter and will double check everything I've linked here

I will note that I avoided linking games such as MOTHER and Fire Emblem: Shadow Dragon and the Blade of Light cause while they technically got an NES release it's in that weird grey area that I feel like is a discussion for another day, especially for Fire Emblem

Ivory, Wrap, and Jubilee like this

99% of those games listed have been on this site way before "FC" was ever an option as a console. I, someone who mods more than one NES game that isn't on your list, but probably would be, didn't even know they added it. That just explains why it is as such.

An NES and the FC utilize the same hardware. Plenty of games exist on both, and will function the same. Plenty of games also exist on both, but function differently, either game play, or aesthetically. An NES board isn't probably going to separate the two regions into two separate leaderboards, unless the game functions just vastly differently. For games that have minute differences, most people would just play the Japanese release anyways.

That being said, you'd have to contact all those boards separately to get things updated. Don't think they'll necessarily all converge here. I'll take a look at my boards to see if any can be updated.

just_tako, jackzfiml and 7 others like this

mammaru339

He/Him

I found this forum because the forum of Atlantis no Nazo, which I moderate, got "Request to change the platform from NES to FC" thread.

I wanna change the platform but I think I have to edit ALL runs one by one. I also moderate Jumbo Ozaki no Hole in One Professional and Tokoro-san no Mamoru mo Semeru mo, so these games have over 250 "NES" runs in total.

I think I don't change the platform until I find how to change it at once.

Edited by the author 1 year ago

foxyclouded, Merl_, and Bro3256 like this

if you go into the game settings on the leaderboard and click the "Show obscure platforms..." button then you can checkmark FC and uncheck NES I am not entirely sure about what will happen to the individual runs but worse case scenario the platform will be blank for those submitted runs and you can go in and easily edit them to FC I believe it's automatic but I am not entirely sure

Edited by the author 1 year ago

jackzfiml and Merl_ like this

The trickiest will be situations like... well Super Mario Bros: https://www.speedrun.com/smb1

The game functions the same NES/FC, to my understanding; runs on FC have always been marked JP - NES, since it was always understood that NES/FC were interchangeable. I mean, check the Tetris FC board: https://www.speedrun.com/bps_tetris

I can see why that might be confusing though for someone looking for one of the many games that are just.. FC games, more or less. The FC filter is effectively useless; maybe 20 games actually have the console listed.

Looking over NES games I moderate, I went ahead and updated the ones that I mod to specify when an FC is used, but luckily most of mine are US only releases, or didn't have too many runs to mess with.

I do have a couple that are "Game Title (NES)", whereas I guess it should technically be "Game Title (NES/FC)" now.

jackzfiml and Bro3256 like this

yeah it's weird I consider both platforms to be separate not only for the various reasons I listed earlier but because fundamentally both systems are very different outside of the hardware the Famicom (specifically the original) is vastly different compared to the NES such as the expansion port on the front for accessories, the microphone on controller 2 that replaced the start and select buttons, the controllers themselves being hard wired and not detachable, and most importantly the Famicom takes 60-pin "cassettes" in comparison to the NES's 72-pin "Game Paks" It can get pretty muddy, especially once you account for add-ons like the Disk System and bootleg consoles like the Micro Genius and Dendy cause where do you draw the line there?

I wouldn't know the ins and outs on hardware specs. I know Famicom Disk System has always been separated, since a NES isn't going to play any FDS system.

Don't know much about bootleg consoles... generally 3rd party consoles aren't allowed, though some smaller games, so long as they aren't determined to be inaccurate renders of the game.

It's particularly strange that a site mod added the FC at all, tbh. The whole NES/FC was such a long standing thing. New mods I guess, didn't think to inform anyone of something that would have weird affects on all sorts of boards and thousands of runs. On the bright side, it's one of those things that can technically be corrected for. In reality, I imagine there will be a lot inconsistency on the boards regarding it until it slowly crops up for those games in some manner or another.

Bro3256 likes this

Don't worry, they added SFC, so, same issue I imagine with a lot of SNES boards right now.

Bro3256 likes this

there are definitely things you can do on Famicom that are completely impossible on NES without modifications other than the expansion audio one neat thing you can do with the 15-pin expansion port on the front and side of Famicom consoles is that for most games the expansion port is treated as player 1 and thus shares the same inputs as the hard wired controller 1 on the console

with this knowledge you can do things such as press left and right simultaneously with an external controller

the video I posted demonstrates me pressing left on controller 1 and pressing right on the external controller also good to note that the external controller I am using is an official Nintendo manufactured controller for the Famicom, more specifically for the Famicom Network System

stuff like this is kind of why to me it makes sense cause one system can do something while the other can't and vise versa

It's still worth at least adding FC as a platform I'd consider the sub-category solution to be a per game solution cause there are several releases on Famicom and NES that are nearly identical and for games like The Legend of Zelda having a separate category between Famicom, Disk System, and NES is warranted cause each platform choice has its own time saves and losses

also I'm gonna bring up another argument as to why I consider both to be separate, back in 1986 Hong Kong would get an NES release courtesy of Simon & Toys () but after only a few years and people already mass importing the Famicom they eventually just gave up on the Hong Kong NES and started to import the Famicom themselves officially () resulting in Hong Kong receiving both an NES and Famicom release (they even call it the second generation in the Famicom commercial) so having them separated makes a ton of sense cause if you want to talk about NES you don't then want to ramble about Famicom exclusive stuff that never appeared on NES during it's lifespan and vise versa

Edited by the author 1 year ago

Yeah, definitely a game by game, community by community thing. Obviously smaller boards would be easiest to update. I just happened to check the Legend of Zelda board: https://www.speedrun.com/the_legend_of_zelda#Any and see they have more or less made the updates themselves.

I don't know the particulars about the original Zelda and how they might differ and to what extent. I would imagine though, that most boards are going to prevent sub cats and splitting when possible; makes the board difficult to read at times. For the Zelda Any%, if I want to know the best times irrespective of the exact console, I can see all the runs on the main board, and if I wanted to know the best NES time (since FC is apparently faster there), I can filter the entire board by NES/FDS, etc. immediately and to my heart's content. If the effort was put in to set up a sub cat for the category, and each existing run adjusted accordingly, then I will be able to see a NES/FC/FDS board and that is it. Ironically, sometimes changes the board actually make it more cumbersome to use, and give it less functionality.

In any case, if one feels there should be to a change to the boards there, then the only real option is basically post on that game specific thread, or reach out to the mods. If there are ton of runners of a game like Zelda for instance, then I imagine they don't make changes to the board with a lot community consideration, etc.

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mammaru339

He/Him

I saw Battle Dodgeball: Toukyuu Daigekitotsu leaderboard, but the all runs have no platform because of changing the platform of this game (SNES to SFC) I think I can only edit the platform manually... https://www.speedrun.com/battle_dodgeball_toukyuu_daigekitotsu

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YUMmy_Bacon5

He/Him