Misc categories Proposal
5 years ago
Texas, USA

After talking with all of the mods, we came up with 5 different runs that are creative and unique for the Misc category, here is what we propose and the rules and instructions for each (standard rules apply)

All NEW GAME:

  1. Grounded: No Death

  2. Easy: No Death

  3. Grounded: low %

  4. Grounded: Challenge

  5. Easy: Challenge

  6. Grounded: No Death allow only (2) restart encounter at david Boss fight & Bar in Searchlight

(until we find more that are needed to avoid a glitch that stops you from continuing the game, like the david boss fight)

  1. Easy: No Death allow only (2) restart encounter at david Boss fight & Bar in Searchlight

(until we find more that are needed to avoid a glitch that stops you from continuing the game, like the david boss fight)

  1. Grounded: Low% Only allowed to acquire and use resources/ammo that are forcibly given to the player or are required to be acquired in order for progress to be made.

Any Restart encounters are allowed

  1. Grounded: Challenge complete a 0 death run on Grounded difficulty with: no med kits, no shiv tricks, no shiv doors, no upgrades (pills), no upgrades (parts), & no guns (can use bow).

allow only (2) restart encounter at david Boss fight & Bar in Searchlight (until we find more that are needed to avoid a glitch that stops you from continuing the game, like the david boss fight)

  1. Easy: Challenge a 0 death run on easy difficulty with: no med kits, no shiv tricks, no shiv doors, no upgrades (pills), no upgrades (parts), no guns (can use bow) AND kill every possible enemy.

allow only (2) restart encounter at david Boss fight & Bar in Searchlight (until we find more that are needed to avoid a glitch that stops you from continuing the game, like the david boss fight)

We think these categories will add fun and more exposure to the game and help us all as streamers, especially with the sequel eventually coming out. - thanks - pdub

Edited by the author 5 years ago
victor149, wildfire011 and 5 others like this
North Rhine-Westphalia, Germany

This post sounds like all the mods already agreed on these "categories". I'm against all of these meme categories because in my oppinion they have nothing to do with a speedrun or with this website. If people want to do challenges like these, they can do it, it's fine, but no leaderboards are needed for this.

Netherlands

They are very memish, but if ppl have fun, let 'm have fun.

down__under and Mattmatt like this
Antarctica

I don't see the harm in having in a few misc categories for stuff like this, usually i would be 100% against it aswell but like Rudy said, let them have their fun :)

Texas, USA

ALL ACHIEVEMENTS or GROUNDED ANY % could also be considered meme, and also meme is just an expression of opinion, a run can be measured by time and as creative as you want, why not add more exposure to the game and try to add more runners? Doesn't seem to be any harm in that, plus more and more games are adding MISC categories to their speedrun games page to accommodate challenge runs that are specific to their game. Look at Dark Souls 3, they have a MISC category and a lot of people run that, its actually forward thinking and the future. Thanks for letting me share my opinion

North Rhine-Westphalia, Germany

I can't see any meme categories in Dark Souls 3 and every misc category in DS3 has around 10 runners. Also an "All achievements" category is not a meme. "100%", "All collectibles", "Platinum%" etc. are part of almost every game. I want to ask the other mods - Why did you delete the "No shots fired" categories 2-3 years ago? Your answer will be "because no one ran it" or "the leaderboards were full" or "they're meme categories", which is basically the same as it is now. I'm pretty sure that no one would run these categories and that in 1 year we will delete them.

Edited by the author 5 years ago
Texas, USA

Again, that is your definition of a meme, but that aside, there are several categories that you have that no one runs or no one has for a long time, why not introduce runs that are fun to expose new people?

There are several games with MISC categories that are specific to that game, and some of these are the largest streamed games on twitch with giant communities:

The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time All (3) Dark Souls 1-3 All (5) Grand Theft Auto games from GTA3 to GTA 5

  • many many more

Low% is a speed run category and is being introduced more and more into a lot of games if you are not aware of that.

If your theory is true, and no one runs these categories and you want to delete them, then no big deal, go ahead and delete them, but you should also delete all the other categories that no one runs. We just want to have fun and run some different categories that are creative which will help build the community.

Also, and I'm not trying to be a jerk, but if you feel this strongly against this, then simply do not run these categories. I feel like if these categories are created then you may feel obligated to run them which you aren't.

Edited by the author 5 years ago
North Rhine-Westphalia, Germany

We can delete categories like Grounded Any%, I don't care about that. These categories are only there because we had to set standard categories when we changed the whole leaderboards.

Again I don't understand what you mean. Ocarina of Time's misc categories have 150+ runners and they are misc categories and not meme categories. Old games like OOT often have things like credit warps so of course there will be more categories. Yes, Low% is a famous category, but not for TLoU. Low% often appears in RPG's where you can clearly restrict your items, for example if you stay LV1 instead of leveling your characters during the run. Your definition of Low% in TLoU would be "pistole only" which on grounded basically is "no shots fired" since you won't have ammo if you're not allowed to pick up ammo. Btw I don't have anything against misc categories, I just don't like meme categories. I know, I don't have to run them, but for me it's also important what other people who don't run TLoU think when they visit the website.

If you really want to have a category like this, I agree on adding a misc "Grounded deathless" category. I only agree because I want to see how the category looks like in a few months. I still don't agree on the other categories.

Texas, USA

Dark souls which has a giant community has SL1 in every one, how is that not a challenge run? The misc categories in any game can be interpreted as whatever you want, they are just runs in general so I know you don't understand my point but I don't understand yours. Also, our definition of low% is not "pistole only" or no shots fired, you should re read the description.

You are ok with Grounded deathless, but easy deathless where more people can run the game is not ok?

Here is the bottom line, this game is old, and the sequel is about to come out in a few years, it would be smart to create a MISC category to build a larger community, isn't that the point of this website and twitch and streaming in general, otherwise, it's just Anthony, Yoranto and occasionally MattMatt who runs the game. My point is no one runs this game anyway and hasn't for a while, and certainly if you don't change, that won't change.

Edited by the author 5 years ago
Australia

I have played this game for about 4 years and I love it. Seeing Anthony and Pdub run this game made me also try and speedrun it but I'm just too far behind to even get close. Plus I don't have the time to invest to get good enough to get a seriously good time.

I think adding new categories would mean people like me (and I'm sure there are plenty) will be more engaged in the community (and therefore also support the "main" runners) and try and get their names high on a leaderboard. It won't take anything away from the main categories and everyone will still know who the really skilled speedrunners are. I mean just the name "MISC categories" tells people who come to the website that it's not the main thing, but are there for a bit of fun/variation that anyone can try. So it won't dilute the prestige of the current categories and their world record holders.

I will definitely give these categories a go. Why not try it? If it fails then no harm no foul but at least someone tried to liven it up a bit.

Netherlands

Still, above reasons, like down__under's reasons, are understandable, but make no sense. Speedruns are about running the game as fast as possible. I do understand the times of Yoranto and Anthony can be a bit overwhelming, on the other hand, those are ppl who spent a lot of time in the game (and yes, you do have to spent a lot of time and effort into it). We discussed these things before (referring to "no shots fired"), like yoranto said, I do am in favor of ppl having more fun with things like these categories, but maybe they shouldn't be up on the boards, unless they make sense.

However, I do like a challengeseries very much. Maybe create a subseries just for fun? Call it something like Challenge on top of the boards and make subcategories. Which will let ppl know that they make no sense, but they are kinda there for just the fun of it.

I think the discussion we had 2-3 yrs ago is very much like we needed to develop a community and having a good set of basic rules an an understanding of the game (we were still learning so much back then!). Everything needs to develop (maybe now is a time for that) and if this attracts more runners, maybe we should give it a shot. We can always go back to the way before.

Edited by the author 5 years ago
North Rhine-Westphalia, Germany

I don't want to sound pessimistic but Anthony has done a tutorial with thousands of views, he was on front page with thousands of viewers, there are new TLoU2 trailers but there's not a single new runner since then. You really think a misc category like "grounded deathless" makes people run this game? This won't happen, especially because you start with easy glitchless or sth like this when you start running the game, not with any challenge runs. Also the leaderboards are not the reason for the low amount of runners. It's the game. And no, I don't want an "easy deathless" category. This would be the same as an easy mode speedrun but without RE's. No hate but who dies on easy mode? That's not a challenge.

To be honest you guys just sound like "I'm too bad to get a good time/WR in a regular category so I need a category that no one runs so I can say I have a WR".

ruudf89 likes this
Texas, USA

@Yoranto, yes Anthony did a tutorial, but he is doing strats that he has been working on for years, no one can replicate his strats without massive amounts of work, so no one running the game is not even close to a surprise, When he did the tutorial I thought, "well, yoranto and myself now have a roadmap, but no one else could do this" - so that point is moot.

I've already beat this horse to the ground and debated every thing that Yoranto has said, so you guys can decide, it's not a huge deal either way, just wanted to add some different and challenging types of runs like other games have to help build this community which is virtually none existent anyway (there are less than a handful of people even running this game), but up to you guys -

We are arguing about a MISC category, this is exactly what MISC category is for, 1 off runs

Edited by the author 5 years ago
Texas, USA

Well i hope you wouldn't ban for me for saying that his tutorial would take a ton of time for a new player to learn and master...and I'm not sure you are implying that I am an Ant fanboy, I watch all of the runners of the game, and you too, you have seen me in your chat many times.

You or I may be missing a bit in translation at least meaning, so not sure (shrugs shoulders)

victor149 likes this
North Rhine-Westphalia, Germany

Everything is fine mate. So again I agree on the grounded deathless misc category. What do the others think?

Netherlands

The comment about not being able to replicatie without massive amount of work shouldn’t be a reason to have new categories to give new ppl a chance. If Ant or Yoranto decides to run those categories, will we make new ones again? Rhetorical question. Same practice is needed to run Super Mario Sunshine for example, reason why I quit running that game a while back.

Why don’t you make a challenge series in the forums pdub? Think that is fine.

Edited by the author 5 years ago
Yoranto likes this
Antarctica

Since we can't seem to come up with an agreement i had a better idea, i have made a seperate category extension leaderboard for the Challenge Runs here https://www.speedrun.com/tloucr Enjoy!

Edited by the author 5 years ago
BradTatum and victor149 like this
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