"China" version and "Japan" version difference in Biohazard 3 PC
7 years ago
Japan

I thought that the category of "PC" was only Japanese version, but if there are other regions, please do not remove the 3 runs.

Mongolia

Why not create a seperate EU and US leaderboards and move the runs there, and while you're on it create a russian leaderboard, since you like splitting the leaderboards so much.

William_Neves and Symm like this
England

Just make PC TWN it's own separate game on SRC tbh, problem solved.

CarlSmile

Sweden

@StevenMayte since there is no way the PC tabs will ever be merged again I would actually accept that proposition.

TWN as it's own game and make Orch the only super mod for it with full power to do whatever he wants with it.

I would be fine with this.

Mongolia

That's actually a good idea, except you guys take the japanese version you love so much and make it it's own game and leave the rest here.

Sweden

There are far more non-twn runs on the board, pc and console. Would take too much time to move all of em also TWN was added last and is already separated and ready to be moved by an admin.

So TWN would have to be the one to go.

Seriously thou, would you like to have TWN if people were ok with it?

Mongolia

I meant, take only the japanese version, leave the rest including console, if it's too much work you're worried about, we'll help, it doesn't matter if it's added last or already seperated Taiwan can't be the version to go because it's THE version to run and it has to stay.

And no, everyone will not be ok with a TWN only game, we weren't okay with the split here in the first place, you know, in fact, just copy the japanese runs and create your own game, and we'll just merge back the leaderboards and have it the way it was, everybody's happy.

Symm likes this
Sweden

Well at least I tried. Moving only PC JP is as ridiculous as when you suggested that the runners could submit their JP runs to both the PC tabs so you wouldn't lose competition.

Guess we have to agree to disagree once more. The board will continue as it is for the time being.

Mongolia

You tried? What do you mean you tried? You suggesed something you wanted, and when the people who actually run RE3 suggest something else, you just claim "it's ridiculous", say "agree to disagree" and quit the discussion? No, this will not do.

Edit: Would you also clarify how it's ridiculous? It's much less ridiculous than having taiwan only game, which is why I suggested to move the japanese version instead.

Edited by the author 6 years ago
Sweden

Well there isn't much more to discuss is there? I came up with a suggestion for the thing you and a few have been complaining about since the separation while the vast majority thought this was the best change ever and you don't like it.

So what is your solution then? Merge the categories again and exclude Japan? Or submitting 1 run for 2 pbs which isn't ridiculous?

If you can't suggest anything better than that then there is nothing more to discuss.

Thinking about it, region subcat would work which would mean #BringBackPAL.

EDIT: Dont get me wrong Orch, I dont really like the seperation either because of there is 2 PC tabs but it was the best solution at the time and it can be improved one way or another,

Edited by the author 6 years ago
Mongolia

the vast majority thought this was the best change ever

See this is the problem, you don't listen or consult enough people, it's clearly obvious almost everyone in the RE3 community dislike it, but you think it was a great change because the people that surround you tell you it was a great change, which I assume are mostly RE2 runners or something or other (i.e people who don't run RE3).

Merging back the categories don't exclude japan, in fact it includes it, right now, if you're a japanese runner you can only submit to a secondary category that won't mean anything, whereas before you could get top 3 easily in any%, and WR in any other category.

England

"i.e people who don't run RE3"

Hold it right there, this argument is totally invalid and just outright stupid because whos to say the current inactive people won't return to the game in the future and still actually give a shit about the game and the leaderboard decisions?

"You don't listen or consult enough people"

It was never discussed before TWN was added to the boards in the first place, it was silently added in the hopes it would just be accepted without any form of backlash, spoiler alert, it wasn't. TWN AND JPN were split the same way TWN was originally added but with the addition of a forum post explaining why it was split.

"You can only submit to a secondary category that won't mean anything"

That's your opinion, and a very narrow minded one at that. Believe it or not though people also share that same opinion about TWN and see it as a category that doesn't mean anything. The Split of the 2 regions was also in part to people not wanting to "compete" with TWN since it already has an unfair advantage to JPN runners.

Since i share a different opinion to you that makes me a Dickhead though, right? After all that is what you said on stream. CarlSmile

Edited by the author 6 years ago
Florida, USA

Hold it right there, this argument is totally invalid and just outright stupid because whos to say the current inactive people won't return to the game in the future and still actually give a shit about the game and the leaderboard decisions?

Wait, as someone who wants to play this game, I need to respond to this. I've actually been running practice runs on stream, I have splits, and plan to submit a run when I'm no longer last place.

Actually, this is incorrect, Steven. If I want to move to the UK someday, does that mean I get a say (and have my opinion be as equally valid as someone who lives in the UK) on what happens today in the UK? I used to live in Texas, here in the US, for example, but I don't now. I don't get to vote on Texas elections today because I "might move back there some day." If I want to run Streets of Rage 2 some day, or I'm thinking about it, does that mean my opinion should be weighted the same as someone who actively runs the game? I don't see the equivalency. It doesn't work like this on almost anything, and I think this is an argument that your intellect is far above.

It was never discussed before TWN was added to the boards in the first place, it was silently added in the hopes it would just be accepted without any form of backlash, spoiler alert, it wasn't. TWN AND JPN were split the same way TWN was originally added but with the addition of a forum post explaining why it was split.

I understand that this was separated for Japanese runners and my opinion on it is fairly neutral. I see the point in both arguments. However, I would lean more towards Orchy's side for logistical purposes. For example, in the UAE or Cuba, either of these versions would be very difficult or impossible to obtain. So they may be stuck playing English, Spanish or some other version. When Dara talked about excluding these versions, I find this to be awful. But if we don't have separate categories for every version, then aren't we excluding people who don't have access to either of these versions, but may have access to a different version? There are many countries with strict piracy laws, even stricter than those in Japan. They may only have native versions of the game available to their countries. This is the argument that I feel is most important in considering this decision.

As an example, I would LOVE a US version category because I know the text better and when I run console, I really don't want to mod my PS2 to play an international copy. But then this makes the needs for Russian, European, etc. categories.

That's your opinion, and a very narrow minded one at that. Believe it or not though people also share that same opinion about TWN and see it as a category that doesn't mean anything. The Split of the 2 regions was also in part to people not wanting to "compete" with TWN since it already has an unfair advantage to JPN runners.

Again, I don't think competition level should be a factor as much as logistics should be, and this is something I feel everyone involved is going on in a tangent. I want a 100% category where all enemies must be killed and all unique items and weapons collected. It almost certainly wouldn't be competitive, but then again, there are categories that exist on RE3 that have zero runners or only one or two, yet they exist. So this isn't really an argument unless these categories are also eliminated or merged into others based on competition level. There are still several categories with no runners at all. However, competition level isn't really an argument either way, and whether I'd be granted that category would be based on other factors, most likely, so I think this should be discarded when considering what direction to move in.

Orchlon and Symm like this
Mississippi, USA

Holy fuck. What a circle jerk. This exactly what happened last year when the grenade launcher tool was discussed. Feels like I’m living in the Nazi Germany Era and all the new runners are my fellow Jews. Where’s the love and civil discussion? Instead we just get name calling and the mods saying no one actually wants this, it’s not happening, when there was no actual vote or discussion taken into consideration because everyone turned on one another. All new ideas are unwelcome. To me change is a good thing for this game and it’s gonna take a whole community to make it happen... if it’s too much work to move or merge some leaderboards then why do you want to be a mod? Oh... hmm I know why. So you can spread your cock and balls and flash them to everyone. Inb4 people I trigger start calling me an asshole noob who’s point is invalid because they’ve never heard of me. What a joke OMEGALUL

Edited by the author 6 years ago
giaNco and Yandere_Maiden like this
Sweden

I'm not even gonna answer that cause its been explained before in the old thread multible times.

I wont waste anymore time on this.

United Kingdom

The active runners argument is mainly silly because it's based on the idea that whoever is running the game at the time, no matter who they are or how long they've been running, has more validity than those who have ran in the past for a l or will come back to it at some point in the future.

In 1-2 years time, if all the current runners on this board branched out to other games and put RE3 on the side. Then, a group of newer runners jumped in arguing that they don't like Taiwan, or Arrange Mode, or, infact, argued Original/Arrange are both redundant and opted to instead covert the entire board to Light Mode for PC (which is a valid viewpoint) and remove all Original/Arrange runs... going by that idea you guys wouldn't have any grounds for a valid opinion because at that time you're not the currently 'active' runners of that community.

The thing is, you guys lean on this argument now because you are the currently active runners, but how would you like your opinion completely dismantled and ignored as invalid because you hadn't placed a PB on these boards in over 6 months? Or because you wanted to branch out your games and not stick purely to RE3? I said this before, but I'll say it again, not placing a PB on these boards in an extended period of time does not mean that you do not run.

Edited by the author 6 years ago
Florida, USA

The active runners argument is mainly silly because it's based on the idea that whoever is running the game at the time, no matter who they are or how long they've been running, has more validity than those who have ran in the past for a l or will come back to it at some point in the future.

It does. It absolutely does.

Think about it. How did this board start? By people who ran the game and were interested in actively speed running RE3. Those people move on and are replaced with others who might hold different opinions. Because of these different opinions, things change. The person who may have started and left the game has a lot less validity to say, "It should return to the way things were two years ago because reasons," and that person also has less validity to say, "I want to return to the game, and here are some things I disagree with because..."

This is how life works everywhere. Again, I don't get to vote in Texas elections because I used to live there and I have some interest in returning. Instead, I look at how things are now and say, "Should I return there still? Have things changed too much where it will be undesirable, or am I fine with how things are? Are things better than when I left and more attractive now?"

Just like if a new runner came to the board and said, "I think NG+ should be merged into Any % because technically, that is any % of beating RE3" doesn't mean that RE3 should change and do that. It doesn't mean that person can't have a voice and be listened to, but ultimately, they are going to be weighted less because they don't run the game.

Also, weight can be placed on many variables. For instance, you might weight someone who has run the game for two years and then took a year off and is interested in returning over someone who has been active for a week. You might weight someone who runs 30 games actively differently than someone who runs RE3 exclusively. They all bring a unique perspective with them. However, I think activity on the board should primarily set the precedent for the weight of the opinion.

The thing is, you guys lean on this argument now because you are the currently active runners. How would you like your opinion completely dismantled and ignored as invalid because you hadn't placed a PB on these boards in over 6 months?

I'd understand completely.

I didn't get to vote in Brexit, although I have an opinion on that. You didn't get to vote in the 2016 US elections (unless you were an American citizen in 2016 and I'm unaware), though I'm sure you have an opinion on that. Even if one of us showed interest in moving to the other country, we still don't get to vote in elections that are happening now.

Doesn't mean that if we shared opinions we'd be ignored. Maybe we'd agree, even. But what it does mean is that our opinion is weighted less because we're not there. And similarly, if we move on and branch out to other games and take a rest or stop playing RE3, or any game, then yes, the opinion has a lesser degree of validity.

Also, I believe it's a bit of an extreme and an inaccuracy to say, "ignored and dismantled completely." Have the mods "ignored" anyone with dissenting opinions? No, they've responded. They've taken it into account. But ultimately, they made a decision, explained their rationale (which I don't think is "dismantled completely") and even to this day, are open to the change. That's not happening, here.

Edit: "That's not happening, here" refers to the mods ignoring anyone. The mods aren't ignoring. They've responded and others have as well.

I said this before, but I'll say it again, not placing a PB on these boards in an extended period of time does not mean that you do not run.

It doesn't mean that you don't run, but this is a non-point. Since we're talking about the board, this means that by not placing something on the board, you're not participating in the board, which is where the rules of this board and the runners who submit runs to it are decided. Just because you never (or don't actively) submit a run to the board or don't want to follow certain rules of the board doesn't mean that you're not a runner. That's irrelevant, though. Again, that's like me saying, "I'm concerned about how schools are run in the UK. I think X should happen." Yes, I can have that opinion, and I can speak about it, but my opinion matters way less than someone with kids in schools in the UK. Even if I want to move to the UK, I have to accept how it is now and become a part of it before I can have weight to change it. Yes, similarly, I want people participating on the board to set the rules of the board.

Also, that doesn't mean someone with a contradictory opinion shouldn't speak, and yes, I think it's a responsibility of the mods to respond to them and not ignore them. If a former runner feels that rules should be changed, then they should absolutely be heard. However, it means that their opinion will be weighted differently (less) than someone running the game actively. And if the crowd who does this is a constantly molding crowd, then so be it.

Edited by the author 6 years ago
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Mongolia

That's not the idea it's placed on Liv, it's based on the idea that active runners know most about the game and our input should be taken more seriously, and each opinion should be weighed appropriately, instead the way things are we are LITERALLY IGNORED, we get ridiculous for suggesting alternatives that are much better than what the current mods have done to the game without an explanation, and when we question some stupid decisions the mods have made, they claim it's been explained before and refuse to discuss it, yeah you might've explained it, but it wasn't satisfactory which is why there's people complaining here right now, and you won't face the fact that you made a mistake, and refuse to entertain the possibility of alternatives and simply try to shut down discussions by "agree to disagree", or by claiming "we're not getting anywhere with this".

Also this hypothetical you bring up, if those new runners are people who actually have ran the game enough to actually know what they're talking about, then yes, at that time their opinion should be held in a higher regard, even higher than ours if we've already quit the game and the WR is already beaten. But right now, our opinions are being almost being flat out ignored or called ridiculous without any justification, and the mods are making changes they like instead of taking input from us.

BlaneAndGame likes this