Removing EMU and VC from the leaderboards
7 years ago
Iowa, USA

As a person who runs VC, it is the only console I have currently. I don't have any interest in buying a N64. I do like to speedrun this game though, and i would be very upset if it was just taken away because it "clutters up" the leaderboards. I think many people like to start with it when they speed run, and I also believe that there are others that are in the same situation. I have no interest in buying an entirely new console just so I could speedrun a game that I had before. I understand that VC isn't as popular, but there are many people that play it, and making them switch to a new console, controller, and style just seems unfair.

bebopbandit likes this
England

Keep things as they are. I agree with saksdal

aek, Really_Tall and 2 others like this
New York, USA

I'm not sure what's meant by making emu and VC hidden, but assuming it's different than what we currently have, I think I'd be opposed to that as well. Like a lot of people have mentioned, VC and emu runners are primarily newer players. Expecting them to be able to find a hidden leaderboard seems almost as disruptive as removing the leaderboards entirely.

If 'hidden' just means that you have to click the emu or VC button when you go to the page (like how it currently is), then I think that's fine.

United States

I mean VC is an official release is it not? Don't see the logic in banning it. I prefer N64 by 1,000 miles for OoT as well but it's BS to ban VC lol

1UpsForLife, Really_Tall and 6 others like this
Pennsylvania, USA

Official doesn't mean a whole lot around here. Official emulation is still emulation, just because its officially made by Nintendo doesn't change that.

I gotta say I had pretty mixed feelings on this but saksdal really hit this one on the money. Its probably best to keep things as is.

bebopbandit likes this
United States

"Seems like a lot of the Pros are overstated. I don't see how removing categories that nobody is running competitively will increase competition."

I think the point then becomes, if no one is running these versions competitively, then why do we have them at all? We don't have a 30 star leaderboard because no one runs it competitively.

I also think you're greatly underestimating how confusing our leaderboard system is to a lot of outsiders. When Paper Mario community were arguing over whether to separate their leaderboards, many of those guys were convinced that emu and VC were banned, and even after the way we do things was explained to them, some of them didn't seem to quite understand it, or they thought that emu/VC was banned in practice.

Definitely could argue that what other communities think is irrelevant though.

Overall, at this moment, I agree with your assessment that the cons outweigh the pros, even if I disagree with some of your minor points. If you look at it as risk v reward, there doesn't seem to be that much reward, but a ton of risk.

Edited by the author 7 years ago
saksdal likes this
United States

Also appreciate Pac giving us permission to against what his personal opinions are. Means a lot.

Vorago likes this
Ontario, Canada

I personally feel that removing leaderboards due to lack of competition is not the right move. Just because the top times aren't on EMU/VC doesn't make the runs of others any less important. That just adds a barrier to entry to newer runners. Although the standard that we set is N64, players really can play on whatever console they choose, and pressuring them to do otherwise (especially in the beginning) isn't constructive in any way.

I can see why opinions would be for the removal as well, but that just seems way more destructive than constructive to me.

dumpdome64, 1UpsForLife and 5 others like this
Canada

Who cares about EMU or VC anyway? Anyone with decent times on VC or EMU should make the jump to N64 already, and the people with laughable times don't really care anyways. Even though I wouldn't mind removing them, the fact that they exist makes removing their leaderbords incorrect. Although I'd like to see a community who will only allow N64 runs I can't see how that would be a positive change. The people who play on N64 are not effected at all, while the people who don't play on N64 will be strongly negative about the change. Like I mentioned earlier nobody cares about EMU or VC, so what harm are they really doing remaining in the background?

Edited by the author 7 years ago
ruunix2 and bebopbandit like this
United States

"The people who play on N64 are not effected at all, while the people who don't play on N64 will be strongly negative about the change."

A very good point.

ruunix2, TylerSM74, and Dienda like this
Pennsylvania, USA

i run this game on emu because i dont have any other way to capture the gameplay and probably wont have a wii cap card for a long time let alone get an n64.

United States

Would you be less likely to start running/more likely to stop running if you weren't able to submit a time to the leaderboards @xzRockin?

United States

Imo, it's pointless to remove VC and Emu now, not to mention it would look really bad to people not in the community and send the wrong message. Plus, the only people that really look at Emu/VC times are the runners themselves, so there's no point taking that away from them. For instance, whenever someone asks about the world record in 120/70, they'll say it's 47:56, or 1:40:10 by Cheese05, not 48:29 by Siglemic. And that brings up my next point, which is that the fastest times are on console anyways. All this would do is make us look like the worst kind of elitists, as well as take away from the inclusion that the leaderboards offer for this game.

New South Wales, Australia

accessibility was one of my primary arguments against iQue, I think like we do it now where emu and VC are basically easy-to-access "free" or cheap tools to learn the game on, is the right way to do it. I wouldn't be opposed to shadowing the leaderboards though as I think N64 should be the primary console for SM64, and I feel forcing people to recognise how we do things as a community will give us more credibility in our arguments. For instance when arguing against iQue a common response was "why not ban VC as nobody runs 0 star on that" etc. Maybe don't ban but shadow it so it's clear to outsiders/newcomers that it isn't as relevant competitively. Keeping them open for people to test the waters and learn I think is a positive thing in the long run and like 99.9% of people do, once they feel the urge to take it seriously they quickly swap to N64. Again my opinion mostly revolves around accessibility, not how many runs are done, as most people have access to VC and if not then almost definitely emu. iQue band doe

ruunix2 likes this
Nova Scotia, Canada

banning official hardware or hiding it because its not the purist's way of doing things is what drove other communities into the ground. really stupid idea imo

Germany

i would be fine with that :D but its a dumb idea D:

Edited by the author 7 years ago
Kentucky, USA

saksdal hit the nail on the head.

Also, I understand completely that the communities competition is focused almost exclusively on N64, but know that removing the fastest version of a game, when the object is the complete the game as fast as possible, is seen as completely moronic in most speedrunning communities. This is really the only game I know of that focuses it's competition on a slower version just for the sake of "better competition." However, that seems to really not be an issue anymore considering that over time the community has accepted that the competition must play SM64 to be relevant. This will be the case until someone gets a VC time that is unattainable on N64. Even then, unfortunately, people would complain that the time would not be WR because it's on the fastest version instead of a slower version that was forced onto people in order to be relevant competition, even though VC is an official release.

I can understand emu not being legitimate, but any serious runner will eventually play on console.

Like saksdal mentioned, the bigger issue here is making runners think you shouldnt run on VC or emu at ¤all¤. Don't do that

Gaming_64, 1UpsForLife and 7 others like this
Australia

Just keep the leaderboards how they are and let people who cant afford/get ahold of n64s' have their own time. Removing VC and EMU is just going to discourage the people who simply can't optain an n64 for themselves.

Canada

I guess you could make a straw poll to see the popular opinion

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EMU/VC subcategories for Stage RTA

We would like to announce that VC and EMU subcategories are now active on the Stage RTA leaderboards (under "Levels"). Stage RTA involves collecting all the stars in a given stage including the 100 coin star. Timing starts on star select and ends upon collecting the final star. You are allowed to us

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