Leaderboard inaccuracies
5 years ago
North Carolina, USA

So after having a couple of my runs retimed I realized that the 1st and 2nd place run times would not be possible on a 30 fps video. A frame in a 30 fps video is .03333333333 you get the idea, and neither 32.303 or 32.313 fit as a viable frame. the 2 frames closest to them are 32.299 and 32.332. When I found this out I decided to get these 2 videos retimed and what I found was a lot different than what I expected. Here is the vid of OverworldYT and I retiming the "WR" of 32.303. (he had the editing software and I knew the frames) Because of the vague end rule of "when you bring the chalice into the golden castle," the end frame I came up with was when the square got re-positioned if he goes into the castle and the frame the player loses control if he doesn't. BeatMaster2003 stopped a frame earlier than when the square got re-positioned but I decided to go with his timing because the rules do not state which would be correct. Even with the frame cut off the time we got was 32.432. This is a while off of what he came up with which was .303. After this I decided to retime second place as well because it didn't fit either. The video for that is here . After retiming that to the frames I decided earlier for my retimes (which I can provide a screenshot if needed), the time was .232 which is a lot better than he originally got (on a side note I don't understand how he got .313, my only guess is that he took the .31 on livesplit and added a 3) both these times are way off and need to be adjusted. If anyone wants screenshots of where timing started and stopped for each run I can provide them. If you would like to see the runs themselves with the timer from the editing software, you can see them here BeatMaster: Nestorc: Please adjust these runs and make the rules a little more clear about end timing.

Edited by the author 5 years ago
OverworldYT likes this
United States

When I time a run, I use as the cut off the moment when the colors start to change on screen, signifying victory. That way it doesn't matter what screen you're on. If it were up to me, that's what the rules would explicitly say.

Edited by the author 5 years ago
United States

Additionally, can you give a summary of what changes you want made, and why, that doesn't require watching multiple videos?

North Carolina, USA

I don’t want any changes to the rules I just needed a little more clarification on the ending time. I would like these times adjusted as .303 and .313 aren’t viable frames and after retiming both of them they are way off. I do like the end time of changing colors and using that Nestorc’s time would be .266, beatmaster’s would be .499, (being the first frame the color is different). The main thing I want is for these times to be adjusted to whatever timing the mods feel necessary and put a clear definition on the exact end time into the rules. Thanks for clarifying an end time and reading all this.

United States

Alright, let me download and retime them. We've got a new claimed WR anyway. Let me see what I get re-timing and then see how that compares with what you get.

How are you determining the first frame?

North Carolina, USA

I determined the first frame as when the screen changes from the game select to the castle which as far as I can tell is the moment the player gains control.

United States

Sorry I've been slow on this. I've had some unrelated issues lately sucking up some of my time.

Do you have a source on the exact Atari frame rate?

When it comes to old consoles and weird frame rates, I'm inclined to just fall back on the best we get from the recording, rather than trying to interpolate.

Edited by the author 5 years ago
North Carolina, USA

I’ve been retiming by the 30 FPS these videos were both recorded in but the Atari framerate that I could find is 59.922751. That’s the framerate that bizhawk gives me.

United States

So we're not going to get 'exact possible' times at that frame rate. I'm not going to worry about what's a "viable frame" at 59.922751fps. :)

See, it seems to me you gain control a frame AFTER the castle becomes visible.

So on your video for example, AVIdemux has the castle become visible at: 0:01.768s. However there's a two frame gap before you move despite having held down L, so it seems to me you gain control one frame later, at 0:01.801s.

And of course the first frame where the color shifting hapepns would be at 0:36.269s.

So I'm getting a 34.468s.

I'm going to take the video and plop it into yua. 1.801 -> 36.269

And if you look at youtube, your run starts at ~0:01, and ends at ~0:36.

So I don't know why you're claiming a 32.099, when your video evidence simply doesn't back it up.

Your 32.099 doesn't at all match what I'm seeing in the video you supplied, using two completely different video frame advance tools to test, as well as Youtube's own player.

Video:

Edited by the author 5 years ago
North Carolina, USA

I think you mistaked the reset I made at the beginning of the video to be the start of my run. I reset after having a bad first key grab. If that's not the case, can you explain how it didn't line up with the video? going through with the youtube player, it seemed like everything was timed correctly.

United States

ok retiming (finally) With a newer version of avidemux

start: 4.204 End: 36.209

Total: 32.005

North Carolina, USA

Really? Can you send me screenshots of the frames? not sure how I was that far off.

United States

Honestly you might not have been OFF. If you timed from a raw video, and I timed from the Youtube encode... throw in little errors from software versions and decodes, and there are error bars with this stuff.

But yeah I can try to do that.

Edited by the author 5 years ago
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