I'm not on reddit / twitter / youtube / discord / skype / twitch chats or whatever the discussion about this is being scattered so I'll just post this on the dead forum. I heard that there's discussion revolving around the category's names (oooooof course) and which runs should go in which leaderboard. Also, as my personal input, the rule definitions on "card duping" are pretty vague and have to change (before another wannabe-shitposter decides to re-ignite the drama).

On the matter of the Any% run segregation: we all know FM is a unique game for speedrunning, because it's based on random card drops, so we might never see the actual faster routes get faster runs, and slower routes get slower runs. Instead, we have something like this:

• Theoretical route speeds: No duping ~= No THTD > Duping
• Realistic route speeds that will probably hold true in this lifetime: Duping > No Duping > No THTD (god only knows where a pocketstation run would be in this scale hu3hu3hu3)

Fact: Duping is NOT the fastest strategy, it just makes the run insanely more consistent. -- So if someone ever gets a run faster than the duping record, would it be on Any%? Or on both leaderboards?

My suggestion is to segregate both any% leaderboards by their routes (the common sense intention, which, the initial way presented, is technically not clear enough, and can generate doubt and more draaaaaaaaama). I'll use the names "Any% (Single File)" and "Any% (Card Duplication)" for the sake of exemplifying, but they could be whatever.

Option 1: No duping = "Any% (Single File)" ; Duping = "Any% (Card Duplication)" In this option both categories are named by their routes, and the leaderboard segregation stays perfect and coherent. There would be no "Any%" category, but then again this doesnt have to represent an ideal -world speedrun scenario, it has to WORK. And this WORKS.

Option 2: No duping = "Any%" ; Duping = "Any% (Card Duplication)" The traditional category stays as Any%. I don't think there would be any problem on preserving the Any% name as a legacy, but I'm sure other people think differently, and that's perfectly fine.

For better viewing I suggest putting the categories on the following order:

Any% (Single File) - 100% - Any% (Card Duplication) - New Game+

(let's face it, only me and urnator care aboug NG+ (the slow american version route, even) and everyone else doesnt give a shit about it :v honestly it could even be a misc. but thats a whole other story)

Minor things: The 100% leaderboard of course has the single-file characteristic within the rules (I don't think the challenge was made for people to just get the 5 big heishin cards, and copy the starchip-bloated file over and over to get most of the rest, with the option of farming equips+raigeki+dark hole just by doing New Game over and over) No THTD and WT (and other possible Jumpyluff-idea categories, kapap) are obviously no duping. The names dont have to be changed since they are misc-challenge categories, as long as the rules are clear.

Also, regarding to conceptualizing "card duping", here is what would be the detailed ruleset on runs that use the exploit:

• Allows the use of multiple memory cards
• Allows the creation of multiple files by doing "New Game" in different memory cards within the run's real time
• Allows the console feature of copying memory card files
• ¤Allows the trade option between files created within the run's real time, and/or that were only traded within themselves and their copies (both things aaaalso done within the run's real time)

¤(aka no outside pre-made file (s) or trading - even if it's just an empty file made for trades, it has to be new game'd - otherwise it would be NG+ or whatever) (tell me if I forgot anything)

There's obviously a way to compact this into the ruleset that shows on speedrun.com, but those are the bits of information that have to be clear. A run with "duping" is simply one that allows multiple files to be created via New Game, opening the console memory card manager, copying these created files to other memory cards and trading within themselves. It's NOT a glitch, it's an exploit that pretty much every kid that owned the game and played for a few hundred+ hours used.

It might seem like I'm over-circlejerking all this stuff. And yeah I'm probably am :v but since the file copy drama finally started, there has to be some good organization that works, so more drama isn't generated and peace may be restored.

Fact: If someone with some knowledge would want to beat FM as fast as possible (for whatever reason, no need for a speedrun leaderboard), s/he would obviously copy their raigeki and equip with 3 memory cards, as well as whatever good cards they were getting on campaign. It's the consistently fast way, and doesn't require a cheating engine like GS or AR, just the game, console, 2 controllers and 3 memory cards. Technically none of these devices are "cheats". ¤ The "true actual" faster process would be to create several files in several consoles, but for the love of god or whatever you from r/atheism would believe in, let's keep this one-console-only shall we? :D

Fact: NOBODY (okay, ~99.99% kapap) actually gives a shit about the duping run. Any% done within a single file is what people play for now and that most likely won't change. It's the go-to "beat the game" run for runners, fun players and viewers. -- It should show up as the main leaderboards for the game, and the dupe run as the gimmicky multiple-files route that ends up giving the easy-mode to clear campaign from zero.

tl;dr:

• Separate Any% by >>routes<< and be clear with it.
• Specify the nuances of what "card duping" is.
• Any% w/ single file is still and will always be the main thing...
• ...but the run (technically non-cheated) that uses several memory cards, new games, playstation's file copy option, and trades exists and will most likely always beat the game faster in this lifetime. It was just a matter of time before someone brought it up.

I have no intentions of spicing up the drama or showing off some sort of shitposting skills. In this matter, I only want to help the leaderboards to get organized and free of loopholes regarding the dupe run.

Constructive input, discussion and disagreements are encouraged! Peace!

EDIT: I saw that the dupe route was moved to "misc", I think that also works!

"damn, any% is using a glitch to make the run faster! We have to ban it asap!"

I actually agree with quite a lot of this.

Maybe we don't need to have a regular pure "Any%" category. This isn't just any other speedgame, and perhaps it doesn't have to abide by the laws of just any other speedgame.

Deln, it's not a "glitch", it's just a memory card filing system exploit that makes the run literally a series of starter deck rolls and trades to make a deck, then clear campaign. Everyone knew about it pretty much since the game was launched, but it makes "speedruns" dull as fuck.

The gist of the "beat the game" runs were always to roll with the file you made and get the cards in there playing the game, not by abusing the copy - tradeover system multiple times. It's not a matter of "let's stay in comfort of our slower route", it's just not interesting.

The drama was generated because everyone always had a common-sense agreement that this type of runs would just be disregarded as a whole, but in a sense it can leave "loopholes" on the leaderboards (since you don't actually use a "cheat device" to duplicate cards so the run technically stays legit), and somebody finally decided to touch them.

Thanks Kollin! It would be cool if other regular runners read this post, so there's a civil solution to this whole crisis acoording to how the game works in a speedrun fashion, and how players speedrun it.

As another minor thing, might as well allow Pocketstation use in the card dupe any% as well since we're at it. I'm not sure what would the policy be since I know very little about how it works but oh well :v

Speedruns with duping are not dull at all, it's very exciting to run through the game with no saves and having an op deck. Dull is subjective, as well as fun.

I disagree with separating them based on route. A no dupe run (or no trade run) will never, ever, ever, ever be as fast as the optimal dupe (/trade) run. That's a fact. Optimally, you can get 12 drags, 12 thunders, 6 equips, 3 raigs, 3 umis, and 1 dh (my go to deck) by 15 minutes into the run (if you're lucky). That alone makes the WT much faster than a no dupe run, and thus is the fastest theoretical RTA route. (assuming realistically optimal rng) Also, final 7 and skipping save menus is realistic in any% and not in no dupe. To claim that no dupe can be faster than with dupe is madness. That will never happen outside of TAS. In order for no dupe to be faster than dupe, you'd REQUIRE perfect luck on every fight, no farming whatsoever, an OP as fuck starter deck, and great drops on every fight. That will all never happen in a single run. However, with duping, a deathless run that can reach 1:15-1:30 is a realistic possibility, and I'll probably end up getting it.

It's fine the way it is imo. I'd also like to say any% should not be misc if 100% isn't misc as well. 100% is arbitrary and pointless, not even 100%, and not even consistent within its own "rules". It also barely has any runs. Both should be main, or both should be misc.

you could make card dupe be a toggle rather than a category. this way any% doesnt have a single run on it.

(http://www.speedrun.com/Journey has glitches being toggled, if you want an example)

Good idea, Naegleria, I found this interesting as well: http://www.speedrun.com/sms

Have "Single File" and "Card Duplication & Pocketstation" (in this order) be sub-categories of Any%, and for the rest, default ruleset being single file.

While at it, I think it would be a good way to segregate the jap-pocketstation cards runs and english-legacy ones on NG+ as well. This way the leaderboards don't get mixed up (because people using english/restricted are not competing with people using jap, and vice-versa), and there's no need for "two leaderboards" entirely.

The 100% being misc or non misc is a whole other issue imo.