I didn't want to bring this up in this thread because it seemed a bit off-topic, but since it was brought up how easy it is to find all the information on https://www.speedrun.com/gta .. this is what I get:

In order to find the other categories you have to scroll down and then untick the appropriate checkboxes (which is kind of unintuitive in itself, unticking something to show it). So basicially you have to know exactly what you're looking for already. It wouldn't surprise me if the regular visitor never finds those leaderboards. I myself had some issues trying to find the OHKO% leaderboards.

I don't know if this is some kind of setting that can be changed, or if that's something for speedrun.com to fix/improve (like allowing a separate "Misc" section so everything can be shown always without cluttering the rest of the games list), but as it is that page certainly doesn't provide easy access to all available information.

Discoverability of the meme boards - which is poor to begin with, but it's probably better that way - isn't the point of this thread. Ryedawg has successfully derailed the thread to "why shouldn't it be on the meme boards?" - perhaps unintentionally, because he doesn't grasp the nuance of the discussion. The question we're actually discussing is "would it be better on the main boards?"

Can All Story Missions be on the meme boards? Yes. Is it better on the main boards? IMHO, yes. It's a clearly defined full game run, which is what the main boards should be. Any% Dupeless/NMS is, when clearly defined, in line with that definition. Is Any% NMS better on the main boards? I'd say yes.

Stop posting about this nonsense, please, and stay on topic. There is a legitimate discussion to be had, but it is being muddied by people entirely missing the point i.e. @ryedawg

@Crook4Money My point is that if you open https://www.speedrun.com/gta without any additional URL parameters, then the misc games don't show up by default.

This happens e.g. when you click on the "series" link either in the search or on any game page. So you can e.g. be on https://www.speedrun.com/gtasaohko then click on the "Grand Theft Auto series" link and come to the series overview where it seems like the OHKO page doesn't even exist. It only appears if you change the search options on the left.

Of course you can search for "Grand Theft Auto" or "OHKO" and it appears in the list there, but if you go on the series page expecting to find a nice overview of everything related to GTA Speedrunning, and happen to have used a link that doesn't show the extensions, then you might assume such a page simply doesn't exist.

Again, this is the default page you get (if you happen to not click on "More..." in the search, but use basicially any other link to the series overview):

when did this become a thread about finding the " meme " boards? and imo a run that well represents the game in it's own unique way but not so stretch out to the point where one little change means a new listing should be on the main boards so

any% / any% NMG / ASM / 100% / All Tags / All Horse Shoes / All oysters / All collectibles

those runs should/is on the main boards with rules that defined what kind of run those are and what restrictions shall be in place ( as we have it already maybe a little more work in ASM idk )

the " meme " boards should be just that meme runs.

LS% / Badlands% / SF% / Desert% / LV% / RTLS% / Cutscene% / hooker% / low% Bad ending etc.

should and is on the respected board.

popularity shouldn't dictate a run being on one board or the other. the demand is there for any% NMG / dupeless to be on the main board and there is.

i'm not kin on bullying one another or shit talking and I thought we where trying to cut down on that happening on these threads.

what I suggested was turn down hard and I took that. Not always a bad thing when you're wrong.

if you add restrictions in the rules (EXAMPLE: no duping allowed) then it is no longer any% - which relies on the implicit nature in its namesake that runners will do whatever it takes to get to end of game, THE FASTEST.

any% doesnt care about how much fun it is or isn't - and so help me god if i see more bully in these threads i will have my head spin

@JOEdrinksBEER

There would still be an Any% without the rule. Any% and Any% NMG would be seperated categories in the main boards.

I used to be against adding dupeless to the main boards for any of the 3D GTA games, because I thought that it would be an incentive for runners not to do the objectively harder and more annoying, yet way faster routes. Back in the days I was mosty worried about dupeless compromising the advancements in any%.

But a lot of time has passed since then, and all of the 3D-era games have been improved to an amazing extent, and nowadays even the best runners are turning back to dupeless. So I think now is the time to try and add the 'No Major Glitches' stuff on the main boards. Although I am not sure how it would be done best, subcategories for all the classic categories (Any%, AM, 100%) or just having a separate Any% NMG tab.

@JOEdrinksBEER right, any% doesn't care if it's fun. Runners do, though, and that's why rulesets have been created time and time again across dozens of communities to make their respective games fun to run, and it works brilliantly. (SM64, OoT, ALTTP, Portal, to start with)

@blacklev to add to this, once a runner has reached the highest level of play the only way they can get a "fresh" experience with the game is different categories and routes, even the antiquated ones have merit as they give the player an experience different than the category that they've grinded out over and over.

As just a viewer of SA runs, I say if it becomes popular among the runners, move it to /gtasa's leaderboards

could it be a sub tab under any%? i've seen other speed run games like that so couldn't we do it along like that? just asking.

I'm a just viewer as well and I think it would be pretty nice to see it. Any (No Major Glitches) seems like a good name. Also if it will be brought back to the main leaderboards, also city categories should be brought as well. I'm talking about LS%, SF% etc. They don't really fit to the CE.

Sure, Hooker%, Low% etc. seems reasonable in meme runs but city runs might be seen well in main LB, maybe in misc categories? Just telling.

Apologies Mehmet. english_ben likes to mock people do with that info as you will.

As you might of saw with my post i think LS% and all the other cities should stay on the " meme " board it's a really good place for them and i think it would just congest the main board.

I've read over all of the posts and understand everyone's point of view so it seems the main objection to the category being hosted on the Category Extensions, or CE, or GTAMEMES is that the leaderboard is hard to find and is a lazy joke of a board and any run with even a modicum of seriousness would not be fit to be there.

So here's the solution, pin a thread in the SA forums linking to the category extensions to increase visibility and make the CE board at least look somewhat respectable instead of a half-assed slapped together mess that came together on a whim.

This should make everyone happy, maybe not at first, maybe not ever, but eventually I think we will all come to agree this was the best solution and tolly is a genius. Anyone who thinks they have a better idea I'd love to hear it, and please try to do so without flaming anymore people. Thank you and god bless.

Not to worry there is a place where the " meme " board is already been link to on a thread i've post that link down below

https://www.speedrun.com/gtasa/thread/va0t4

by now i think most of those who taken part of this discussion have tried out their keyboards beating in the fact of the matter. I also think a lot of people have said their part and are going to stick by them until this whole thread stops or gets locked ( hopefully that won't happen. locked i'm meaning ). I personally won't get into what is wrong with the GTA: category extensions hopefully with your comment Tolly2Hot the mods there will get to work on building up their own board and making it attractive to runners but with my own personal experience with that i don't see that happening.

@BackmadeJay This has become a thread about finding the Meme Boards since ryedawg posted a screenshot proving how easy it is to find, accompanied by a link leading to a view of the GTA Series page that doesn't actually show those categories, which inadvertently or not, in my opinion highlights a discoverability issue with the GTA Series page. As I mentioned, it's not entirely on-topic, so I will address it further in another place.

This whole thread is still about discoverability though. It started with Tirean not knowing that Dupless exists on the Memeboards. The question to ask here is how many visitors are likely going to look for a category, and popularity among runners is certainly a part of that, but also what people just generall expect to find on the leaderboards. And as BackmadeJay said, I think people should be able to find all categories on the main leaderboards except actual meme categories like Cutscene% or badly defined (if only because you need to load a save) like Desert%.

@blacklev I think just having a separate Any% NMG tab would be enough. At least currently 100% and ASM don't really need a NMG subcategory. And it makes it easier to navigate without subcategories, at least as long as there aren't too many main tabs.

I feel like @blacklev 's response is the best one so far, any% of III, VC and SA has evolved so much that even the most experienced runners are going back to dupeless (for ex. Chivu for III or Flying for SA). Also putting dupeless on the main board would definitely give it some more life because would see "Oh, a main category I can run!" and probably try it out. So yeah, I'm for putting dupeless on the main board for SA, and maybe III and VC.

Also "Any% No Major Gitches" sounds like a pretty good name.

Making the change at 7 PM EDT. Unless I'm given a good argument against replacing ASM with this, don't bother posting.

@tolly2hot So here's the solution, pin a thread in the SA forums linking to the category extensions https://www.speedrun.com/gtasa/thread/va0t4 There kinda is, not directly a thread just for it but a general purpose thread. But I still agree there is potentially a discoverability problem (not anyone here's fault, just how SRC is)

Anyway this has gone on way too long. I went back and deleted most of the totally pointless shit, some of the semi-pointless shit I've left for conversation continuity. It's seems best to me that an Any% No Major Glitches (NMG) be added. From what I've seen a significant majority (D E M O C R A C Y) of active runners and routers, as well as others, want to at least TRY to add it and see what happens. And what @blacklev has been saying seems true to me. If Any% NMG isn't different enough right now, it will be in the future. Any% will only get more broken. @Powdinet provided some decent rules https://www.speedrun.com/gtasa/thread/txhqv/5#p79zc here and a few others expanded on it in a few others places but I'll write what I would add. Words r hard though so I'm probably not the best for writing these rules.

Name: @Mhmd_FVC suggested Any% (No onmission Flag Manipulation), a few people said Any% Dupeless, but I and a few others have issues with those names (which I've posted before) and NMG is basically the same thing, but I honestly think NMG is better, and flexible+future proof, and used in other speedruns.

Rules: No unintended OM0 Flag Manipulation No Mission Duplication (having more than one mission script active at the same time)

Edit: I should refresh before posting sorry. As for replacing ASM I personally don't feel strongly one way or the other. Not sure why it has to go but it's only purpose was as a "Dupeless" category.

I think it would be confusing if ASM disappeared from the Main Leaderboards completely (not sure if you meant that by replace), I don't see any harm in having it as a Misc category. It was good enough to be on here all this time.

ASM imo should stay it's a different requirement by a whole regard than any% NMG/dupeless

1. you have to get a particular sex appeal getting a particular haircut takes part of that. as well what vehicle you're driving and how damage it is.

2. have to watch how often you save the game and how much you eat as muscle and fat has an affect if you gonna waste 2 mins or not.

3. has added mission that would fat out won't ever have to be done in any% NMG/dupeless.

4. reason why ASM isn't a popular run is to my knowledge of a rule change and imo killed the category however rules can change again ( won't make that argument at this time. )

5. while ASM or AM as it ones was called was made to counter dupes in the any% run however made a whole new run in birth of duping. ASM shouldn't be deleted just cause any% NMG/dupeless in coming to the main board as it doesn't fully replace the run.

inclosing: ASM is and will be a less popular run than any% NMG/dupeless that is just the way it is and still really believe it was killed over a definition of a " mission " to some and was hardly give the time to vote on the matter before the change was made ( again this argument will be made on a later date. ) if others like to give their own reason to keep ASM of course let them be heard but other than what i said there isn't much else that i personally know of.