I will run when i choose to run as of right now i am running dead rising overtime mode and on top of that i have ran glitchless before just because its not on the leaderboard due to the fact that the mods are biased towards banning a category that they feel would take too long to verify and aswell why do any of you care if you dont run glitchless or no oob and you know what oob is glitchless in this game would simply be like intended any% where you play through the game as it is intended for you to play through all the levels and not jumping straight to the end

just saying "play the intended route" is really not how that works man. that's probably even worst to define, honestly.

Everytime I use "Define what is OoB and Inbounds in Argent Energy Tower" as an example, noone wanting glitchless back can answer that question. With that in mind, the "play the game as intended" arguement falls flat.

Oh and by the way, I have run Glitchless abd was the only person to have submit a Glitchless run in the past 6 months. :O

Can you guys please stop spamming my notifications, thanks Kappa

Speedrunning isn't about being good at the game. It's about being fast at the game. If you're wanting to display your skill at d2016, that's great! You can do that all you want! This just isn't the place for that.

You can do speedruns on consoles, of course, no one's stopping you, but none of the tricks in this particular game are doable on console. That's just the way it is with this one. And we're not adding glitchless back unless the guidelines that have been given for doing so are followed, because we had it before, and it was a total clusterfuck with people ALWAYS complaining about something or other. People wanted to allow the BFG glitch because "It's not a glitch, it's an exploit." In glitchless. It's a total clusterfuck. You can do glitchless runs if you want to. You can submit them. We'll accept them under any%. You can do whatever you want when it comes to running the game. What you can't do is show up into a community that discussed this for the better part of a year and demand that we change our decision because of you. I'm sorry, but this is a game where it's simply impossible to be competitive on console in any%, and a game where we really tried to make glitchless runners happy for a very long time, and in the end it just couldn't happen.

LOL this thread is on fire for no reason. I'll put some more wood.

TheBritishRunner: "I say Glitchless is more skillful and nothing meme", "Just because someone people dont like a category doesnt mean the category shouldnt be there"

Yeah it's not a meme and it's more skillful when it comes to combat. Lot of the criticism of glitchless comes from biased hate of glitchless category in speedrunning and people who don't run glitchless.

CreeperHntr: "Argent Energy Tower for example: define what is inbounds and out of bounds." , "Define rules that actually make sense and can be applied on every level"

There's no out of bounds in this area on glitchless. You got the wrong stage to try to make your point.

The rules were defined. The problem was that all mods in this game didn't want to verify glitchless runs. For instance, I found the accidental invincibility glitch in Vega that nobody noticed for more than a year and people were doing it in glitchless.

Jamacanbacn: "Running the game will make your comments more credible"

That's true, if someone wants a console category they should do a run of it first even though I don't see a problem of adding a variable for consoles since they're listed below the game's avatar picture.

guacodile: "just saying "play the intended route" is really not how that works man. that's probably even worst to define, honestly."

I know right? But apparently that's what the mods here wanted because everything that is not intended is considered a glitch in their point of view.

MisterMunkki: "Can you guys please stop spamming my notifications, thanks Kappa"

I'm sorry. you're a legend dude. You and Judgy are my favorite glitch hunters in speedrun history.

Psychonian: "Speedrunning isn't about being good at the game. It's about being fast at the game. If you're wanting to display your skill at d2016, that's great! You can do that all you want! This just isn't the place for that."

If that's true, why there are categories for Nightmare and Ultra-nightmare difficulties in this leaderboard?

So since rail boosting was allowed and theres no OoB in Argent Energy Tower, does that mean it's ok for me to rail boost all the way to the top? See, this is the issue with glitchless. With a game that's: 1. This broken and 2. This open in terms of the maps, it's virtually impossible to define what is and isn't a glitch. You should know that this was the reasoning as you were in the discord everytime it was brought up with the only time you said anything at all waa after it's removal. It's the same with every community, if you want to have a say in the choices the COMMUNITY makes, yes not just to mods, then join and be active. It's that simple.

"If that's true, why there are categories for Nightmare and Ultra-nightmare difficulties in this leaderboard?"

The rules are clear and precise for this category, unlike glitchless

Hi, don't mind me, Computer Game Development student coming in.

What is a glitch? Well, it's defined as an error made by the programmer/developer that is not as catastrophic as a full bug (these tend to soft- and hard-lock the PC/console!), but it is passed by Quality Assurance to allow the game to make it to Format (i.e. getting the game published). They are generally non-critical (they won't blow up the game or fry your hardware) and so they are never normally fixed.

Why is this definition important? Well, it's because Bethesda. Doom is not a stable game by any stretch of the imagination. I have been able to perform railboosts (by accident) at <60 FPS. Granted, the main speedrun category ramps the framerate up to make the glitch easier to perform, but the mechanics of the game allow it at the normal FPS as well. This is an issue with no quick and easy fix, and pretty much invalidates any attempt at a Glitchless category without some hefty arbitrary constraints. Playing the intended route without performing exploits (e.g. clipping out of bounds) is doable, but that does not get rid of the fundamental glitches. (Difference between a glitch and an exploit - a glitch is something unintended by the developer, an exploit is normal intended behaviour manipulated into doing something unintentional.)

Is it possible to run without encountering any glitches? Possibly, but in order to do so you'd probably have to make some very detailed rules about how to do the run. I believe this is the main issue with the Glitchless category - if the rules, aren't well defined, the runs themselves lose credibility. If one can find a better (or rather more consistent) way of achieving runs without glitches and then defining the rules-set for guaranteeing glitchless runs, I'm sure people would be more receptive to the category. As I understand it, the general complaint was that certain runs included glitches and then dared to call the run glitchless anyway, which is a nonsense.

In short - glitches bad, Doom has glitches, glitches != exploits, get way of glitchless to be good, HungryTag, better defined rules, everyone happy, we all get back to speedrunning and stop writing long forum posts like this one. mic drop

You have to realize that throwing more fire into this actually further reduces the chances of this category ever coming back to the leaderboard again.

You already know the concerns and problems that have been discussed here, just repeating yourself wont increase the weight of your opinion neither to get it back nor to have it still removed, it just discredits it.

Instructions are clear, define glitches clearly and reasonably and bring up a defined set of rules that allows for fair comparisons between runs, anything else is just a waste of time and will further stir up the stigma of "glitchless is retarded".

can we just lock this thread now

All criticism around glitchless makes no sense. Every time that the discussion comes up someone brings a non-issue to the table to try to justify its exclusion. Rail boost on glitchless? Where, when?

Also it's kinda silly to try to threaten me as if I have something to lose. There are no concerns or problems, the ones that existed were accepted by people in the community (or they omitted themselves from giving an opinion) to only later on a single guy decided to remove glitchless because he wanted to.

Every time that the discussion comes up someone brings a non-issue to the table to try to justify its exclusion.

If one can find a better (or rather more consistent) way of achieving runs without glitches and then defining the rules-set for guaranteeing glitchless runs, I'm sure people would be more receptive to the category. ...define glitches clearly and reasonably and bring up a defined set of rules that allows for fair comparisons between runs...

Clearly someone didn't read and just wants to pick an argument ¯_(ツ)_/¯

Locked until further notice.