Pilot Run for Carnage% (And the direction 107% should probably go).
7 years ago
Washington, USA
MarcyAugust
She/Her, They/Them
7 years ago

Basically, the all collectibles part of the run is redundant, and 107% is no longer something you need to go out of the way to get, so the run is rather redundant right now. I propose that we transition the run over to only needing to kill all the enemies (minus the ships at the start) so we can have the run be clearer in scope and more concentrated in what it is trying to do. Plus, since the run only deals with kills, all the runs in 107% would work for it, so a transition would keep all the runs we currently have.

MIDIbusker likes this
Norway

I'm intrigued, but also a bit confused and sceptical. I kinda get removing the collectibles from 107%, since we have a category for that, but I don't really understand why it should be turned into a pure HAPTKEYM category. Not sure if you meant we should remove 107% from it, or if you meant we could just as well remove it. Like I mentioned on discord a run without LMOOB is pretty much just as fast, and it probably wouldn't end up giving you the 107% achievement.

If the proposed category is just "Have a Plan" I kinda feel like we would have to add Diplomat% and pure 107% as well, feels somewhat arbitrary to have a category for one specific achievement and not any of the others. In my opinion the thing that would make the most sense is to add diplomat as a requirement. Whether we keep the collectibles or not doesn't really matter in my opinion. Another question to keep in mind is whether or not the changes will make more people interested in the category. I don't really have any idea, but I guess it's something to consider.

I am much more interested in All Achievements to be honest, and feel like that is a better priority. I'm not saying that a change to 107% is a bad thing, it's been discussed before how weird the rules and requirements for the category are. I just feel like adding Diplomat is the only change that would make the category more logical. Making it a pure HAPTKEYM run would turn it into a completely different category in my opinion.

69_others and MIDIbusker like this
Michigan, USA

If I remember Taiyo's intentions correctly, this would be a Misc category, so I personally think that we can be as arbitrary or as formalized as we want in those categories, and base it strictly off of what people want to run. Going back to our old reform discussion thread, I do remember that you said Diplomat admittedly made the current 107% less enjoyable, though you felt that in principle it made it a better category. I do agree that this category isn't so much a "what should happen to 107%" category as "here's another category."

At the time, when I suggested having separate runs of "HAPTKEYM," "Diplomat," and "107%," it didn't sound like there was a ton of interest in running these. As people do runs, we could/should definitely make leaderboards for them, though. Those three achievements, far more than any of the others, do represent completion "milestones" worth tracking in runs. That also gives us more possibilities for SRL races. I love the Any% IGT ones, especially since the leaderboard is so active this summer, but maybe a bunch of new categories would entice people to branch out since we'd have a level playing field.

As you said, though, polishing and formalizing the rules for "All Achievements" is a big priority, since that category would likely be a main category once we've got everything concisely spelled out.

So, in sum, speaking as a mod, my inclination would be to approve this as a Misc. category, but not merge 107% into it or replace 107%. Ghuia, Rezoons, Prettzl, and I will of course discuss this a bit, based on how opinions come out in this thread. Based on your run, I'm trying to extrapolate a ruleset that matches the language of the main categories. How does this look:

Complete the game as quickly as possible, while meeting the conditions specified below, using the In-Game Timer (IGT) for timing.

  • In addition to completing the game, the run must include killing all enemies (as defined by the "Have a Plan to Kill Everyone You Meet" achievement).
  • All runs must be completed using the Steam edition of Out There Somewhere.
  • The IGT must be visible for the entire run. (In Options, select "Show Game Time.")
  • Video must begin before selecting "New Game."
  • The IGT begins on the first frame that Yuri's spaceship can be controlled, and ends when the final shot hits Grigori's spaceship.
  • Actions that reset the value of the IGT (e.g. exiting to the main menu) or alter its normal operation (e.g. activating the Smoke Overflow Glitch) are prohibited.
  • The use of any external program to modify gameplay (e.g. keybinding software) is banned.
  • Modification of the game file is banned.

As for a category title, you know that I'm not a huge fan of appending "%" to categories not named "Any%," "Low%," or an actual percentage number. It's not my call, though - if everyone likes "Carnage%" then that's the name. Let's have that discussion here, though!

France

Just my 2 cents for the category title : I'm also not a fan of having a "%" associated with something that is not a percentage. Moreover, if the goal of this category is completing an achivement, wouldn't that make sense to name it after the achivement name ?

Washington, USA
MarcyAugust
She/Her, They/Them
7 years ago

Skritz I agree on that point, HAPTKEYM should probably just be the name as that is the goal of the run.

This as a Misc. category would most likely make sense as it is definitely not a major category since it has a small added rule, so I agree with that too.

For All Achievements, we definitely need some more discussion on what that will become. We've seen a couple different attempts at a run, and as it stands having it be an RTA with a reset shouldn't be an issue since A. there are other games that allow resets (heck, Any% RTA has a reset in it I think), and B. those would still work even if somebody was able to beat the category without resetting.

On that topic as well, we shouldn't have to force SAM to be used for achievements, but the downside will be in increased difficulty of making sure runs are valid. If mods are fine with this, since this category probably won't be uber popular anyways, then it isn't too big of a deal (although some might find difficulty with tracking, there are always splits on RTA timers that you could use to track, although that is clunky).

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