Ninja Smasher! Forum  /  Systems and categories
  KennyMan666KennyMan666

So I started running this game last year on 3DS, only reason I didn't make a page here was that I couldn't record any run. I'm mostly running with Chain Sickle, though.

So how about adding 3DS as platform, and the other three characters as categories as well?

 
  RocksyRocksy

I have recently updated everything and have found a few new tricks and glitches that could help you with your runs. I will add 3ds as a platform too so you can submit runs. Good luck with your runs 🙂

 
  KennyMan666KennyMan666
(edited: )

Just got my first sub-40 with Chain Sickle and that can easily be sub-39 too, though I can't submit any runs anyway since I can't record from 3DS. Heh.

Also, I just confirmed that the key glitch does NOT work on 3DS, so that's going to have to be a separate category, and having an "all dungeons" regular Ninja category is redundant since you can't actually skip any dungeons with that guy.

 
  RocksyRocksy
(edited: )

Yeah but in all dungeons you cant use key glitch but in any% you can so even though he has to do all of them he can skips the key rooms in any%

 
  RocksyRocksy

I will make a separate any% categories for 3ds but all dungeons should be fine for both consoles

 
  RocksyRocksy
(edited: )

Also with the Chain Sickle NInja you can skip Dungeons 2 and 4 with him even without the key glitch. Also you can record your 3ds with a phone or something and as along as the video is clear enough for me to see the game i will verify it for you

 
  KennyMan666KennyMan666
(edited: )

Dungeon 2 isn't actually skippable with Chain Sickle, no. I would love it if it was, but you can't actually get out after Dungeon 3 without the wall cling, so that's a softlock. If it was possible to do that, then you could get bombs first which would speed up other things, but not doable. Trust me, I've tried. Everybody except regular Ninja can skip the ice dungeon, and Robot Ninja can skip the ghost house.

And key glitch really needs to be considered a completely separate category and not rolled into any%, since it's a NG+ thing and more importantly only works on the PC version. If it were up to me, In any% and 100%, the key glitch should not be allowed, and then glitched should be a PC-only separate category. I find the practice of doing something on a separate file first to bring advantages into another file and not have the first thing be included in the setup kind of sketchy, but if anything, it's NG+, which absolutely should not be considered regular any%.

Edit: Something's fucky with the 3DS version, it seems. From my googling, the PC version has been updated, and the 3DS version... is no longer on the eShop, at least not the EU eShop. The hell's going on here.

So if the updated PC version lets Chain Sickle do multiple chains in one jump, then yes, the haunted house can be skipped. Aaaand the update notes do state that they do exactly that. Okay, I'm going to need to play the PC version, but I don't use Steam...

 
  RocksyRocksy

There's a glitch with banjo kazooie that requires you to do something on another file and it gives you powers early but that isnt considered ng+. Ng+ would be started the game with all items etc etc. I hope you see where I'm coming from by keeping it in any% because any% is the most basic and simple category there is and the goal is to beat it as fast as possible and the key glitch makes it a lot faster. It would be different if you had to use some third party software to make it work but you can do it within the game.

 
  KennyMan666KennyMan666

No, I don't see where you're coming from. It's bringing items in from a previously made game file. It's the definition of NG+. Glitched NG+, even, since you're not meant to be able to do that. It's not regular any%. It's a really sketchy glitch as it is in my opinion, and it really shouldn't be considered kosher for any%. It absolutely must be a separate category, distinct from glitchless any%. Call it glitched any%, but it can't be rolled into regular any%.

 
  RocksyRocksy
(edited: )

any% means beat the game as fast as possible and that glitch allows it. If you don't like the category run all dungeons then.

Edit: To make you happy I'll make an any% glitchless category

 
  SmurfySmurfy

On any LB ive seen a NG+ category is used when the game has a built in NG+ function, not when a glitch allows you things on a new file that you shouldnt have. Banjo Kazzooie using FFM is a great example of a game allowing you to bring things from another file like Friendlyrock said.

 
  KennyMan666KennyMan666
(edited: )

A separate category is what I said from the start there should be (and I would argue that using the kind of glitch in BK or FFVII or whatever should also be considered its own category). I still think it's the key glitch one that should be considered its own category, since with the current setup of categories, you can still use the key glitch in All Dungeons.

So, really, why don't we just do the following divide (and I don't really care which order they're put in):
Glitchless. Here, the key glitch is not allowed. The categories should be any%, All Dungeons and 100%. The only character that it could maybe make sense to have a separate 3DS category for is Chain Sickle, since he plays differently (though I haven't actually tried Robot or Kunoichi in PC version yet), but I've switched to the PC version now (the new Chain Sickle route is disgusting in all the good ways) so why don't we just remove the 3DS categories and cross that bridge if anyone ever wants to submit a run for it, which seems unlikely now that the game has for some reason even been removed from the eShop.
Glitched. Key glitch totes allowed. Should have any%, All Dungeons and 100%. PC only. (incidentally, it appears that the reason the glitch works at all is because the saveslotxx file isn't actually deleted/properly cleared out when the file is deleted, so there's some leftover data there. Good job, Q-Cumber.)

Those should cover everything, I believe?

I mean, I'm not trying to take away your record or anything, I just want categories that make sense and are clear as to what is and isn't allowed between them. And since we seem to have a spot of disagreement, why not just give both a denominator, so there's not actually just "any%" (or whatever other category) - just "Glitched any%" and "Glitchless any%".

 
  RocksyRocksy
(edited: )

I believe that doing that would be a good idea because right now the all dungeons category doesn't allow key glitch. Making a glitch version for all the categories and a glitchless version for all the categories would be a nice solution to our earlier disagreements.

In other news, I've been thinking about routing the 100% run for the ninja and was wanting to ask you if you have done any routing for it so I could save some time. Right now it seems like its going to be a very long run with some enemy grinding for gold. There is a lot of back and forth you have to do to get items that require items that you don't have the first time around.
Any help would be grateful but if you don't have the time or aren't interested in running 100% you don't have to help.

 
  KennyMan666KennyMan666

I doubt I'll do 100%, and regular Ninja just isn't interesting to me. I've been thinking of routing Chain Sickle All Dungeons, which probably is just going to be Volcanic Cavern first and the rest in order, grabbing Wind Scarf before Haunted Temple and entering Snow Mountain from the back. As Chain Sickle I'd still skip actually grabbing the gauntlets, at least definitely the ones from Haunted Temple and maybe the Silver ones too, since getting stuck on the walls and ceiling would just be a bother (and no longer getting stuck on walls is my favourite thing about the new Chain Sickle route).

Might start running Kunoichi any% too. Though taking twice as much damage makes Underground Lake the worst thing and that category will definitely involve buying a lot of health potions, and maybe even grabbing some additional heart containers.

 
  RocksyRocksy

I was actually doing some Kunoichi routing last night and she can do a few glitches that I thought only the robot ninja could do, but her four jumps make it possible. She is very fragile though and I have most difficulty with the 3rd boss because her attack is different from the rest and usually ends up getting hit. She is very fast though but for now you will need a lot of potions and hearts to get it done.

 
  KennyMan666KennyMan666
(edited: )

I keep going on about categories but any% glitchless has become pretty disgusting in the bad way so once I've solidified a route (there are currently two options and both are terrible) and made it viable I am switching over to All Dungeons, so I actually get to play the game too. I actually wanted to ask if we can change that category, from All Dungeons to All Major Upgrades (or some more elegant name), just to have an excuse to include the Ghost Catacombs for the Wind Scarf as well. It would include also getting the shuriken, yes, and apparently you get those in your Ninja All Dungeons run, so that run would be perfectly legit for All Major Upgrades as well. I guess we could call it All Items, that should leave out hearts and scrolls. And potions.

And when talking about categories, I think we should revamp the sorting - make the characters the primary thing, not the categories, and under the characters have the different categories. Would neatly deal with that Ninja doesn't actually need both any% and All Dungeons since he can't skip any, and can easily slot in a separate 3DS category under Chain Sickle only without making it look weird.

100% I doubt I'll ever do. I did play with Kunoichi, and while running with her is going to be terrible, I did discover that her dropkick is so fast that she can actually two-cycle the ghost boss without water.

 
  RocksyRocksy

Ninja actually needs the separate categories now as of last night. I discovered a way to skip Dungeon 3 and 4 along with getting the scarf and wind spell. All dungeons could get changed to all items I suppose. Otherwise, I think the sorting of the categories is fine as is right now. I could, however, add the 3DS Chain Sickle in since you say he is different than PC version.
Are all other characters the same on the 3DS version? I've been meaning to ask this.

 
  KennyMan666KennyMan666

The rest are identical as far as I can tell. Haven't played a lot of anything but Chain Sickle on PC though, did the one playthrough with Ninja to unlock the rest, played Kunoichi up to the end of Haunted Temple and Robot Ninja, well, up until double jump boots. Never did play much of any of those two on 3DS either. The only real difference Chain Sickle has is that he as of PC version 1.01 can do multiple chains in one jump, and so can do a lot more stuff with it. 3DS Chain Sickle never got that update.

I don't know about JP or US eShops, but Ninja Smasher! isn't available on the EU eShop any more, so I don't know if adding that category is worth it at all. 3DS has more lag, at any rate.

Also I mean I'm going to start running it as All Items regardless of what the category actually is named. Even though I'd rather skip the gauntlets.

 
  KennyMan666KennyMan666
(edited: )

I said I would protest, so for real, though: Key glitch and vertical displacement ARE NOT GLITCHES OF EQUAL STANDING. My latest run should ABSOLUTELY NOT be in the same category as a run that uses the key glitch. One uses resources outside of the current save game. One does not. One is, as far as I'm concerned, NG+. One just does what you can do from a fresh, clean save file.

So it's partly my fault for calling the initial suggestions of categories "glitched" and "glitchless". That was, I will now admit, a mistake on my part, since "glitchless" really is a bad name for a category - for exactly the reason that there's a wide variety of glitches. Some glitches are just unintended movement tech that save a second or two that can be done on accident without really noticing that you do it. Some completely mess up what the game should be like and save two hours. So when it comes to categorization, some do make sense to do a category split over. Especially when one of the glitches is a kind of controversial practice. In this case, it absolutely isn't arbitrary. You wouldn't really call a Super Metroid run a glitched run just because it uses Mockball.

I don't really care what you call the key glitch category, even though I think it should have a label as well. But I will officially and politely request that "Glitchless" is renamed to "No key glitch". Or some more elegant version of that.

Edit: Thanks for that, glad we could get that cleared up. Now my efforts in this game are going to be all about Chain Sickle, All Items, no KG, and I'm quite sure that can be a sub-30 run. It's funny because it wasn't long ago that my any% goal was sub-40.

And maybe Kunoichi All Items too. We'll see. She's so fragile though.

 
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