Request to check integrity of 100% rules
7 years ago
Massachusetts, USA

To my knowledge, 100% is traditionally unlocking or collecting anything that has a lasting effect on the game as a whole, whether it be pointless or not. I see no mention of going for all exits that affect the over-world map paths, which means the game map is incomplete and this is not truly 100% as per the traditional definition that has given 100% a reason to exist as a category name in the first place.

Perhaps rename the current 100% to Beat All Levels or something similar that summarizes the rules?

Zeldafan024 likes this
Texas, USA

I brought this up to a runner of the category a few months ago. When I addressed this point, he blew it off and said that it made no significant impact on the run, therefor, it doesn't need to be added. When in fact, even if it's a single path that leads to an already seen level, it still makes a change to the overall game. Making a permanent change from another exit, like TenshiKasai has stated, makes the most sense to add to 100%

Beat All Levels or perhaps even Reimu% could work for the current definition.

United States

I believe that the names of categories should be determined by the game's speedrun community. It would appear that they have spoken, and as a prospective member I agree. The terminology is defined in the category rules. If you want to add another category, might I suggest calling it 'All Exits'? If a new category is being added, I don't think we should give it the name of another category that already exists; that would be confusing, especially to anyone unaware of the change.

I don't think All Exits is worth having as a category, as it does not add anything worth doing to what is currently the '100%' category. I also think that '100%' refers to number of things collected, or pause menu achievements gotten. If a name change is absolutely necessary, All Achievements seems to be the only one that works, but it's cumbersome. Reimu% stops working if somebody finds a glitch that breaks the requirements. Thoughts?

United States

Categories are defined differently across communities, and as cool as it'd be to have universal rules, such an ideal world will never exist in speedrunning. 100% being defined as "having a lasting effect" is also arbitrary; Super Metroid 100% for example is focused purely on item collection (which the in-game percentage tracking is based off of), and the map is not completely explored despite it being persistent across play sessions.

If you want to create a category involving strictly all exits, I suggest taking the Super Mario World approach and calling it "64 Exit". (This game has 64 exits right? I haven't played this in full in years.) And if 100% doesn't already have all exits, how much longer would it become by adding all of them? Might just be easier to increase the length of the run a bit, maybe it'd add some cool stuff too?

Lastly, don't name it Reimu%. This is something that bugs me across a lot of different games but the "%" in category names should only be used for actual quantities (e.g. low%, any%, 100%); using it for anything else is a bad meme.

United States

@bjw An "All Exits" (64 is the number of stages, I haven't counted exits) category wouldn't be very much longer than the category currently referred to as "100%". I am aware of 3 exits not included: the secret exit from 1-4 to 1-7, which is used in any%; the nonsecret exit in 2-7, which is just a 'haha you failed the puzzle' exit; and the one in...I believe 2-2, which is right near the secret exit and would just require going through the stage again.

It's really not worth it to have All Achievements and All Exits be separate categories, because they're almost the same. The only nontrivial exit not included is 1-4's secret exit, and I don't think adding it to the run is worth also adding the repetition in World 2.

If a rename is necessary, I suggest that the current category be named "All Achievements"

Massachusetts, USA

I am concerned with there being too many categories, which can be quite annoying if one is just 10 minutes faster than the other. I discussed this with Gotonis on twitch whispers and all exits probably adds 10 minutes, its not that much content as people who blow off ZeldaFan have said.

I am starting to think glitch hunting might be a good idea since the game feels relatively unexplored, but if all else fails we have 3 choices, keep everything the same, rename 100% to All Achievements (heavily prefer this one), or redo the rules for 100% so that it is basically All Exits which does cover the entire game.

Also, I am a comp sci major and so isn't gotonis, I want to glitch hunt the game and me and gotonis talk often, so perhaps collaborate on glitch hunting? If not, I got three day weekends so I can possibly fit glitch hunting in.

Any thoughts?

Edited by the author 7 years ago
Texas, USA

As a reply to BJW: Point taken on the Super Metroid situation, but the problem with that is the fact that Super Metroid has a percentage counter as well as it not being a platformer in the style that NSML is. For games without a percentage counter, wouldn't it just make sense to do everything that makes a change in 100%? It just seems odd to have 100% collectables and 100% achievements, but not to include 100% of the paths in a game such as this. As for the Reimu% thing, I too think putting % after everything is ridiculous. I only did that for the memes.

As a reply to Gotonis: You are correct about it not being worth it to have both categories. I say either combine them to make a true 100%, or if you really want to name the current 100% category to be changed to "All Achievements", I guess that would work as well.

As a reply to TenshiKasai: As you and Gotonis have stated, I agree with it being trivial to add another category for the sake of 10 minutes (if not less). I think you may have made a tiny mistake by saying, "and so ISN'T Gotonis". I felt this was important to point out as to not undermine his achievement. I think finding new glitches in this game could be pretty neat. Maybe you'll find a stage 0 glitch like what was found in Gensokyo no Nazo.

My final thoughts: Really, I just hope that all of this made sense to everyone, haha.

Massachusetts, USA

ZeldaFan we were leaning on just renaming the category lol

It makes the most sense at the moment with the current rules, and I am holding off on saying add All Exits since it is just 10 minutes extra or so and I do wanna glitch hunt so the categories can be re-evaulated later.

BJW does make a good point though in questioning the difference between All Exits and All Achievements. Gotonis told me All Achievements is met with All Exits, so we could just change the rules but.... well it would be nice to have a big difference between All Exits and All Achievements so I am being a bit hesitant.

Now, considering a 100% race was on SRL, that does mean there is a 100% counted elsewhere under the rules listed here, so that is a thing to definitely think about. Correct me if they did not run under the rules listen on this board.

Overall, it feels like the 100% category is vague and it wouldn't hurt to see if there is some glitch that can make the categories vastly different, rename for now just in case nothing comes up and discussing making all exits a requirement can be considered later. Also I mentioned gotonis solely because I wanna bug him for help with glitch hunting for an opinion when I think I found something. XD

United States

If the current "100%" category doesn't see all exits and finishing all exits only adds a few more minutes to the run, then honestly, just visit those exits and keep the category name. 100% is a young and unoptimized category, a change this early won't hurt anyone. As mentioned already, two categories doesn't make sense given this and keeping the category as is (but renamed) seems really odd to me given how close it is to just being a true 100% category under most common definitions.

Massachusetts, USA

You got a good point BJW. I just do not wanna step on anyone's toes in terms of their progress and routing, but perhaps adding all exits to the rules won't really hurt anyways. I brought this up here only because I am concerned about casuals who 100% the game, check out the category because they are interested in speedrunning, and possibly seeing a lack of "100%" in the category rules and walking away. That is important because the leaderboard looks stale if people aren't interested in the category, so appealing to majority, even though a logical fallacy, might help the boards out a bit. I am still open on the topic, but seeing as BJW is also an experienced speedrunner I value his input quite a lot.

Any other arguments/thoughts/agreements for anyone to add? I'm leaning towards a 10 minute addition onto the category since BJW reminded me it is a young and unoptimized category, and my idea of glitch hunting before making a decision is starting to feel like a longer process than I initially thought.

Texas, USA

I am in agreement with adding the 10 minutes.

Hopefully that glitch I found out will add some spice to things, though. If it works for anything, that is.

Since there seems to be general agreement to include all exits in 100% (and rdd doesn't seem like he's going to say anything about it), I added it to the rules

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