Forum posts

Forum: Left 4 Dead 2

Thread: fullbright w/sv cheats vs. mat hdr level

Started by: mike01530mike01530

Cheat protection is sufficient to ban a command, but not necessary. For example, the kick command is not cheat-protected, but is banned anyway.

I don't believe the command gives much of an advantage beyond a few dark areas such as The Passing 2 crescendo, but personally I find fullbright to be pretty ugly and unnecessary, so I'm only slightly opposed to it.

 

Forum: Left 4 Dead

Thread: Submitting to AGDQ, can we get a run verified?

Started by: TheMasterTheMaster

I'm not sure what the best way to contact them would be. Flicky seems to visit the site frequently, and has appeared online since the creation of this thread, but has neither replied here nor verified the two runs we have submitted, so notifications may be disabled (or ignored) for the two moderators.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/22735865/temp/flicky_online.png

From our experience and what we've heard from other runners who have recently submitted L4D1 runs, it generally takes weeks before a run is verified, which is quite long. I'd like to propose that active runners of either L4D game, or some of the L4D2 moderators become appointed moderators here because L4D1 is almost a proper subset of L4D2.

Cyberdemon531Cyberdemon531, TheMasterTheMaster and jellie188jellie188 like this. 

Forum: Left 4 Dead 2

Thread: Rejected for having sound mods?

Started by: FreekillFreekill

While we're at it, some of my submitted runs have a harmless sound add-on: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=173558747

 

Forum: Left 4 Dead 2

Thread: I think deagle and I just discovered a new category

Started by: TheMasterTheMaster

You guys are jerks.

...although joking aside, when categories like LMOE and a blatant cheat mod still exist, I could see why this was taken seriously. 🙂

cooopercrispcooopercrisp likes this. 

Forum: Left 4 Dead 2

Thread: Mod simulating old versions

Started by: DerpduckDerpduck

What "exploit blocks" are there besides player clips and pushers? Console output would be quite easy to video-edit, so requiring a demo file would be safer, but I don't know if all the runners would want to go there.

I'm somewhat interested, because it might help with testing what's possible with good bhopping in the old version.

 

Forum: Left 4 Dead 2

Thread: Autobhop exploit

Started by: mike01530mike01530

Originally posted by TheMasterThe purpose of speedrunning is...
What you personally feel about the "purpose of speedrunning" and what "is wrong" in your book doesn't say anything about how easy it is to cheat, which is my primary concern.

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What is wrong with being a purist for the main category of the game?
There is nothing wrong if each rule can be verified.

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I don't see any solution besides hoping for the best
How is "hope" a solution for anything?

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Not allowing bunnyhopping even manually is even more impossible to police and still removes that skill from the game
How is that impossible when video proof is required? Just watch for momentum-preserving/building jumps as you're verifying the run. It doesn't matter if bhopping requires skill; sometimes there is a cost to keeping a speedrun fair.

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Even if the script ¤is¤ exploited, considering how much somebody will have to conceal it, it will likely not make a large impact, certainly not to the degree allowing the script at all times would.
It was stated in the OP that it is easy to conceal, and nobody has contested that. If you reserve the script for the huge time savers as I've already mentioned, then it will have a large impact.

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The way I see it, the leaderboards have been up for some time, [...] it's been working all this time and to let it go.
So I should keep my back door unlocked because nobody's tried to break in through it yet, right? "It hasn't bitten us in the ass yet" is not a good reason to do nothing about it.

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disallowing bunnyhopping in general is the least of the evils presented
That is the next best solution I can think of, even if it would potentially invalidate many of the existing runs.

 

Forum: Left 4 Dead 2

Thread: Autobhop exploit

Started by: mike01530mike01530

Originally posted by CanterlottThat's true, but for someone to go through that much effort just to cheat a run of a shit game nobody really cares about would be stupid. That doesn't mean it won't happen, obviously.

I doubt it would take that much effort since NohBoard is open-source.

Originally posted by CanterlottHow about just not bhopping at all if you're that worried about your run being denied?

My worry is exactly the reason for me posting here and hoping for a mod's response. I don't want to slow down my runs, and at the same time, it bothers me that the door is wide open for cheaters.

Originally posted by CanterlottThat's a bit redundant; that should go without saying. Cheaters have an unfair advantage in any situation, because they're cheaters.

I forgot to specify the part where cheaters can easily get away with it in this game.

Originally posted by CanterlottI don't understand how disallowing scripts is unfair to people who don't script.

As I explained earlier, it's too easy for cheaters to get away with scripting.

Originally posted by CanterlottHow would you suggest this be changed, by disallowing bhopping entirely, rejecting all runs in which someone jumps twice in a row? Should we make another category for each category in which bhopping isn't allowed, further cluttering the category list? Bhopping is a fundamental exploit used in many games, which means it can be cheated/scripted in practically all of them, as well.

Those solutions suck, but they are at least better than making it easy to cheat. I currently can't remember any game where bhopping is disallowed, and since this game doesn't get much attention when it comes to speedrunning, I personally wouldn't want another category. Simply dropping the "no scripting" restriction, at least when it comes to bhopping, is the sanest solution I can think of, especially when a script is readily available here.

Originally posted by CanterlottThis is why all we can do is leave it up to the mods to decide, or just not bhop at all.

Before I make a decision on how I'm going to do future runs, it would be nice to have a mod's opinion on my concern.

 

Forum: Left 4 Dead 2

Thread: Autobhop exploit

Started by: mike01530mike01530

Originally posted by CanterlottYou could always use a keyboard overlay such as NohBoard to show your jumps, although as I stated before, that won't 100% prove that a run isn't scripted.

I think an additional problem with NohBoard is because it's open-source, a developer could easily modify it so that it won't flash your spacebar again if the amount of the time that's passed since the previous press is low enough. This could lead to a video that looks legit until a bhop timing expert actually scrutinizes the jumps frame-by-frame; I don't think making that part of the verification process or requiring a keyboard overlay for every run is something that anybody wants to do.

Originally posted by CanterlottAs long as you're not getting flawless hops throughout the entire run, which due to the low tickrate would be near impossible without a script, mods should have no reason to deny your run.

So basically, like you've already stated earlier, cheaters have an unfair advantage as long as they only toggle on their bhop script at important places, e.g., c1m3 escalator, c2m1 slopes, c5m5 slope. A rule that disallows bhop scripts but not bhop itself doesn't seem fair to the people who've been doing it 100% manually so far.

 

Forum: Left 4 Dead 2

Thread: Autobhop exploit

Started by: mike01530mike01530

Originally posted by DerpduckThere's nothing suspicious about those bhops at all, if anyone thinks they are then they are just bad.

Thanks, though that only sort of answers the less important of my two questions. I don't want a mod to question the legitimacy of my run if I ever get good at bh in this game.

 

Forum: Left 4 Dead 2

Thread: Autobhop exploit

Started by: mike01530mike01530

How can you tell if the mods "do a pretty good job"? I'm curious about where the line would be drawn, because cheaters could select important parts of a run to enable a bhop script and chalk it up to luck.

For example, would the beginning of this video raise any eyebrows?

I've been bhopping since Quake, and have had to practice it in Quake 3 CPM, Warsow, and other Source games. I've only recently started trying it seriously in Left 4 Dead 2 over the past couple of weeks, so I don't know how good I'll become at it.

 

Forum: Left 4 Dead 2

Thread: SGDQ Submission for Left 4 Dead 2

Started by: CrayonsCrayons

For most games, like Nasood stated, the GDQ committee does not want to have them run in two consecutive events. For what it's worth, due partly to the poor reception of the previous GDQ run, many people want the next one to be on at least Expert. The Master, I, and two others intend to submit a run for AGDQ 2017 together.