A topic has come up recently for this leaderboard regarding the rules surrounding IGT timing. Since the rules here are likely to transfer to the main board eventually, this is an important discussion to have.
A couple runs have been submitted recently that play the Mushroom cup out of order. The player uses manual course select rather than 'In Order', which allows the player to do the MG glitch early in the run. Due to the nature of in-game timing, it doesn't affect IGT duration, only real time.
I want to get an idea of how players feel about this, and about playing with an in-game time priority rather than to minimize real time.
##Advantages of not enforcing non-play time limits:
- Playing the hard parts first. Being able to play the courses out of order means players can reduce the amount of wasted time while grinding runs.
- High level of execution. More resets means better runs. The quality of gameplay would increase overall.
- Players can take breaks (stretch, water, restroom). We're humans with needs, and we make the rules for runs. Why unnecessarily stress the human body to play fast?
- Unfair comparison to legacy runs. All of the past runs have played to minimize real time. It's unfair to old runs that new runs require less effort to grind out.
- Negative outsider view. A random outsider watching a run would expect the player to go fast. If the WR run is taking 2 minute breaks between each course, using course select, or pausing during a race, the outsider would likely lose respect for a player not displaying the "spirit of speedrunning".
- Unclear non-play limits. What stops a player from having 2 consoles running, and practicing a track immediately before performing it mid-run?
- Limit total non-play time (RTA minus IGT)
- Limit time waste between tracks
- Ban pausing
- Enforce track order
- Any combination of the above
The 2D sonic games use IGT, here's their rule as an example: Pausing without unpausing for more than 20 seconds voids the run. Pausing for more than 10 minutes in total over the entire run makes it void.
I have my own opinions, but let me know what you think in the replies here.
I feel personally that the main leaderboard for 150cc should still be used in real time, since its running on console and emulators are banned, especially if it's a 16 or even 32 track run. IGT works on the 2d sonic games and Sonic Adventure 2 battle, due to some versions running on pc and potentially not being faster than console for the real timer. If both the main and category extensions leaderboard due switch to IGT, I do feel that there needs to be a limit on how long you can pause just like the 2d sonic and sab2 leaderboard. Once again, in my opinion, since all runs are pretty much done on either a Wii U or Wii console and not on an emulator, it doesn't make much sense in my eyes to switch the leaderboard to IGT.
In my opinion for a singular cups speedrun you should be required to play it in order i reallywant the new igt rule to be passed for regular mkw because some wiis and wiius have different loading times and its really weird to have that for runs. As for the nitro cups and retro cups i think its the same story but for 32 tracks its fine because it has already been a rule
I hate to say no on this because it would bring times down alot but i just see to many issues with allowing it. Letting people just pause whenever or take breaks between tracks would defeat the purpose of a speedrun in the first place. If i can take 2 minutes between each track is that a speedrun anymore? or just a really good casual playthrough. You'd have to have rules about how long you could pause or wait between tracks but even that has problems i don't like. Are the mods really gonna be able to enforce that rule? Can they look through every run submitted to makes sure you don't pause to long or take to long of a break? Is charlie gonna have to sit there with a timer to count the break time for every single run? Even if the answer is yes do we want a situation where we might have to tell someone who got a really good run that it doesn't count because they paused for 11 seconds and the limit is 10? There's to many complications that would result from that. Or you could make the word speedrun totally meaningless. Doesn't make sense to me.
I agree with mariodude on this situation but i do still think the igt rule for mkw should be passed because it will make things better for the mkw speedrunning communty in general people won’t feel like they cant get close to WR just becuase thier wii or wii u doesnt load quicker than others on the pausing situation it really shouldnt be more than 5 seconds
I think im the person who started doing this, but I think it is indeed unfair and if it would be banned this all would be more fair. If this stays it makes runs easier to get, but why do skips runs have to be easier? Skips are hard and that makes them fun, if you want to grind skips with quick resets just go play time trials. I say we force everyone to play tracks in order.
I agree with tectrox saying that igt should be introduced so people could take a break for a couple of minutes, as long as nobody used pause buffering or home buffering to get glitches. It should also be played in order like here in the category extensions as it would make previous runs where people grinded for wr way easier to beat as there wouldn’t be any real consequences if they fail a glitch cause you could do it at the start of the run and make it easier to get wrs
I believe that pausing should be allowed as I have had many runs where family members come in because of something important or I simply had to quickly do something else. I do believe that it should be regulated similarly to how the Celeste rules say that breaks for extended periods of time are banned. I also believe that playing tracks out of order should be legal not only because it lets you do harder tracks first but adds a tiny bit of strategy as in perhaps I want to bag on track x and not track y but track y is earlier in the cup I could start on track x as starting in the back makes bagging a bit easier plus i save time on track y by starting closer to the finish line
Thanks for the feedback everyone. Here's my proposal for a new rules amendment:
##In-game settings ADD: • Courses: In Order
##Category Rules/Timing ADD: • Pausing the game mid-race is not allowed • Extraneous inactivity between races is limited to a maximum of 5 seconds per track total throughout the run. For example, for a 32 track run you get 2 minutes 40 seconds (5 x 32 seconds) of break time that may be distributed however necessary throughout the run.
I'm not sure about the last bullet point. It seems a bit too detailed, but I know if we just say "please refrain from taking long breaks mid-run," someone is going to ask "how long is too long". The rule isn't too difficult to enforce because I'd just use the non-play time that I already calculate and see how far from the median you are. This does give less break time to people with slower loads, but from what I calculated the slowest load times only lose 2.4s per course, which still gives the runner nearly 90 seconds for a break in a 32 track run in the worst case.
seems like a good rule cant take a break for TOO long but can take a break courses are in order and its fair for older runs and usbloaders can be used YAY