Now that we have a new trick, we have to decide if we want to let it be part of "The Long Way" category or not.

My 2 cents here is that we should NOT allow it in the long way category. With the new skip disallowed, 5 out of the 6 races would now differently routed than Any% - which I think is awesome.

Still, I want to hear what others have to say about it. I won't insist on it if everyone else wants to see it included.

In my head, I see three options:

1. Allow the Kukie Skip on the premise that it is literally the same path traveled.

2. Disallow the Kukie Skip on the premise that it is a skip like its sibling the Silly Skip, and clarify that skips were not intended to be allowed in the category. Considerations should be made in this case to clearly define the category as "skipless" or something similar.

3. Recreate the Long Way category, calling it "Long Way Skipless" and include the Practice jump. If the true spirit of the category was to show a completely different way to look at the game, then I think we should nuke it and start over with 6 non-Any% decisions: practice jump, long Beginner, Intermediate, Aerial paths, no Silly Skip, no Kukie Skip.

My preference would be the 3rd option, which is why I want to present close to the beginning of the discussion so we can get community takes with it considered.

May i see a video of the skip?

Here is the original video LeKukie provided when he discovered the skip. This saves roughly 0.9-1.0 seconds compared to waiting for the platforms to cycle through again.

For the kukie skip, I see it as a more optimal way to complete the only possible path on the level. It isn't necessarily a different path or route, it is just a more optimal strategy like bouncing in the maze in Intermediate. I've always thought of the category as "when there is a path split, take the slower path", but that might not be how it was envisioned when created - because that could imply that you have to take the ramp in Practice like the high score run.

If we say the kukie skip isn't allowed, it seems more like we are disallowing specific strategies that don't enable an alternative path through the level. The silly skip is actually allowing an alternative path through the level, so I don't see them as being equal.

That being said, I am fine disallowing the cycle skip by considering it "short cycle" vs "long cycle". It does seem a little arbitrary, but it is nice to have the level be different in some way than normal any%. Should Practice requirements change to have to take the ramp route?

A related question - in Silly right before the birds, why not take the lower route, rather than going by the screen bounce hole? I think the tas goes lower, but is it faster or slower for people? If it is slower, then would that be the longer way?

@alex_kaboomalex_kaboom check out the top 2 runs on the Any% board at the end of ultimate to see the skip in question.

Oh Ive seen this many times on the streams its like a pause buffer

My thoughts are the same as wes. This skip is not an alternate route, it's a faster technique on the same route and therefor should be allowed. Disallowing the skip would be akin to saying you can't use the 'run' button since it's not doing it the slow way.

I'd say allow it for long way.

If you really wanted a category for playing the game without any skips it would probably be a whole other category. Basically "Any% No Skips" or similar (disallow silly skip and lekukie skip and that one at the end of the carpet for example). And then you're not tied to a route of long or short it's traditional to the original game play.

I will be fine with either decision, though I am leaning toward allowing Kukie Skip. It doesn't skip a longer route in the sense of distance the marble travels, like Silly Skip, although I see how it complicates our understanding of the category given that it manipulates platform cycles. That said, if the spirit of Long Way is to showcase 1) parts of the levels not traveled in Any% and 2) more basic gameplay (no skips), then I'd be down for not allowing Kukie Skip, provided we revamp Long Way's parameters.

Regardless, I am strongly in favor of adding the ramp in Practice for Long Way

@somewessomewes I've had this question as well, but have assumed neither path is more optimal.

Long Way excludes all the shortest routes. Logically then it should also exclude the skip - if only also because psychologically a lot of non-god-tier players get the yips on the snake and that should be a legitimate part of the challenge of the run.