IsraelJust practice, late game is about surviving and end game is about coiling.
Update: My assumption was incorrect, turns out finishing wall mode is possible "in theory", without dying at the end. According to CLTincknell: "if every space is occupied by snake or a wall, you'll win and it'll play the little jingle" And "You'd have to be able to form a Hamiltonian circuit through the board which I don't think would be possible under most board generations, maybe none of them"
So here's my new proposal: if anyone ever completes that run, we'll add a category of it to the leaderboards
How does that sound?
I think we should avoid having a category that it's not even known if it's possible to complete. But when we do know, if someone ever gets it, "252" will change into "Hamiltonian circuit" (expect for peaceful where it's just 252).
I had this idea but postponed mentioning it until after I get classic 50, since I'm just focusing on that category right now. Totally agree on most points. I'd like to know how did you reach the number of 166, although it's besides the point. I agree that speedrun.com doesn't present a motive to complete wall mode, it did present a motive to get to 100 apples which I'm the only one (as far I know) to ever have done so.
In general, I think we should ask the developer to give wall mode a clear ending goal with a "game completed" score (what should that score be would be up to him. I think it should be 126 which is half of 252, or maybe 150 which is a nice round number and sufficiently high, since 252 isn't possible and it's the only score to get you to the end screen without dying, wall mode has no actual ending at least as far as we know.
Maybe he'll consider making wall mode be viable for a "perfect" end game score, but that may introduce major changes to the game mode and I don't think that's desirable. I don't want to reset the leaderboards (might be biased on this one, but yeah.) That being said, creating a category for an "unknown if possible" kind of thing is something I'd rather avoid too, I don't want to "complete" wall mode just to die at the end.
Sorry about the rant, we basically agree here.
TL;DR: any new category for highest wall mode score should be official in the game itself - in my opinion.
It didn't work because you were on multi mode, where you need to leave at least 3 spaces free (I'd go with 5 usually) at the ending if you want to survive. Then when you reach a high enough count, you close it down at the ending spiral - in hopes you didn't run into yourself earlier from apple spawns (could happen before 251, that's the risk). Look at my 252 multi runs, you can filter to show hidden runs and see how it's done.
The optimal way to die is turn back as the game starts, doing it 10 times quickly only depends on how fast you reset (spam the space bar), such a run would be pointless. Sorry.
So, a bug has been fixed, where "The logic for finding an unoccupied cell for the new apple wasn't taking Pacifist into account and was assuming that the snake was occupying a unique cell for each of it's body segments". Let's call it "Apple spawning bug", or ASB for short. This ASB that's been found only affected peaceful mode.
ASB has been fixed, and now apple spawns in peaceful mode make sense during late game, which is mostly relevant for the 252 category. You can no longer play with ASB. CLTincknell (developer of the game at Google) said: "You guys will have to decide whether you want to reset the Pacifist 252 leaderboard for it."
So now, let's talk about beating sub6 without ASB. The main factor to getting a sub6 time without ASB, kind of like how it was with it, is getting really solid early game.
Without ASB, I managed to get a 6:18.930 with relative ease, which is a comfortable 2nd place behind my sub6 and 10 seconds ahead of the rest. Link: For that 6:18.930 no ASB run: The 25 for this is 35s, which is top 10 The 50 for this is 1:14.6, another top 10 The 100 is 2:34, 4th place And 252 a respectable 2nd place on the leaderboards behind my sub6 with ASB - which I got mainly with a 100 time of 2:16 in that same run. If I had got to 100 in 2:16 without ASB, assuming same pace, this 252 no ASB would've likely also have been a sub6 or very close, so getting to current ASB WR and beating it without ASB is possible in my opinion. Of course it's not gonna be easy, getting to sub6 even with ASB is not easy. But the grind and road there isn't really different.
Since my ASB sub6 does feel like at the end the bug was majorly "optimized", to the point of getting that many apples in a row right at the end, I wouldn't mind just switching that WR for the "no ASB" 6:18 - if you guys feel like it really has that much of an impact, but it'd only mean I'd have to "re-earn" my sub6 spot, which is within reach given enough grind. Such a grind would require getting really good 25 and 50 times too, on top of a solid 100.
We could also do something like this: https://www.speedrun.com/afterbirthplus#11_Char Where ASB would act the same as "co-op baby" acts in that leaderboards. The main flaw with this idea is that you can't play with ASB anymore, but I still wanted to have this brought up.
Conclusion: I feel like the leaderboards should remain unchanged, or at most, switch my sub6 with ASB for 6:18.930 without ASB on 252, or maybe the extra column idea, or perhaps some other idea I didn't think about - that isn't resetting 252 peaceful. I also think that 100 and lower apple categories should remain untouched, since ASB barely affected them.
Thoughts?
You may also disable "use hardware acceleration", after that it works with window capture for me. I do it for auto splitter regardless though.
There's also a direct link to just the game in Resources tab.
