In-Game Time Counter
4 years ago
Orlando, FL, USA

Because a vast majority of games don’t have a mechanic that slows time. I think it’s fair to be able to show the timer before the run officially begins. That way there is no confusion.

Ontario, Canada

Then learn to play the game and avoid it because there is specific parameters that make it happen, It's not as RNG as you think.

Tracking IGT even if we show the timer upon deploy and after is still not giving an accurate form of measuring time elapsed in the game as a speedrun.

Edited by the author 3 years ago
Michigan, USA

avoiding zed time would suck all the fun out of the run.

Ontario, Canada

You say that but tbh no matter how you slice it the as someone who takes tracking this accurately on a competitive board seriously and have been for years now, It may suck but its gonna be how we need to do it unless they fix the in game timer to properly count.

I'm not too happy about it myself either because its more work and effort for myself to both make the changes and updates reflect into the boards and also follow suit.

Feel free to run the game on ur own using IGT but going forward RTA is how we will track runs here because its far more accurate and fair given how the game currently works.

Edited by the author 3 years ago
Michigan, USA

showing timer at the start of match and subtracting that from end results screen would be a relatively easy way to measure igt

Ontario, Canada

You forget the fact we have mentioned that Zed time ultimately makes the IGT broken and not count correctly. Subtracting the initial time on deploy and for the end is is enough, that I don't dismiss but when comparing an accurate time measurement to an obviously inaccurate one there is clearly a massive time difference not accounted for when your measuring competition where inputs and time are what decide what is the fastest.

Edited by the author 3 years ago
Michigan, USA

if everyone wants rta than thats fine you guys can do your thing and ill delete the game but the people who are active and I really want igt

Michigan, USA

zed time not punishing your timer is a great mechanic and i will be deeply saddened to see that go. im not trying to be a dick im not telling you that you dont know what youre talking about bc u obvi do i just think that it cannot be understated than removing igt strips away a core gameplay mechanic in favor for a playstyle completely unintended for KF2

Edited by the author 3 years ago
Ontario, Canada

You fail to see the points being made. TBH this is not even remotely close to a discussion where your self or others have not contributed information to help with supporting your side of the discussion other then complain that you want to keep an inaccurate form of timing runs that is clearly being abused in an unsportsmanlike like fashion.

I would love for the games IGT and Zed Time to be a part of playing the game but since they clearly do not work correctly together amongst other things is unfortunately not something we can control which is why the switch to RTA makes sense because within that realm we have control when it comes to accuracy.

I would rather not be spending this time debating this and just continuing on with IGT as well but sadly as someone who takes this stuff rather seriously its not something I'm willing to let slide knowing full well its doing more harm as it goes on then good when it comes to tracking competition correctly.

The Game can still be competitive if not more, It does involve adapting a bit more to the game albeit avoid a game mechanic that is manipulable to a degree.

these may not be as accurate as many report but it is fairly verifiable if you have played the game enough.

Base chances to get ZED Time: Player kills ZED (within 300 units of range) - 5%. Player kills ZED (range > 300 units) - 2.5%. ZED kills player or other ZED - 5%. ZED dies under other circumstances - 5%. Commando's extension - 100%. Boss dies - 100% (duration - 6 seconds). ZED Time base duration is 3 seconds and slows the game world and IGT to approx 20% of games full speed. Minimum interval between two ZED Times is 10 seconds. Cooldown starts right at the beginning of each ZED Time.

Edited by the author 3 years ago
Michigan, USA

how is it being abused in an unsportsmanlike fashion? triggering zed time as much as possible and using it to your advantage is the developer intended way to play the game

Ontario, Canada

If IGT tracked it accurately as I have said then there would be no issue but sadly it does not. ZED Time still has some merit in runs but attempting to always trigger it when unnecessary will start to be come more disadvantageous as I've said.

There are class perks that u can get that actually would make ZED Time more desirable in speedruns for RTA purposes.

Accepting this change is your Biggest barrier outside learning and adapting to new strategies with this.

Edited by the author 3 years ago
Michigan, USA

zed time is triggered for playing the game well. to ask runners to avoid zed time and beat rounds as quickly as possible is fundamentally paradoxical. with rta you would simply be working against yourself

Ontario, Canada

Your logic is flawed in so many ways. There is advantages to be made with this change and new strats to develop when it comes down to more accurate time comparisons between players on boards.

I'm done discussing this with you in particular on the forums @windshieldsnatch , as you still fail to provide any reasonable effort to continue fighting this discussion rather then be constructive to it.

If you would like to continue this discussion feel free to get a hold of me on Discord or via DMs.

Everyone else i would still like to hear some feedback and constructive discussion from, If people continue to start complaining about this then I will just lock this thread and changes will just happen as I've stated based on the knowledge we have and based on the facts presented.

Edited by the author 3 years ago
Texas, USA

I really do feel like pulling zed time out of run timing is going to give my flamethrower a bit of an unearned edge here. The second place run in burning paris, as commando, RTA is going to go from 16 seconds behind me to over a minute behind me, by a rough check of times on clear videos.

I get the concern with Zed time giving people a bit of free time to work with, but since it's random, capitalizing on that as best as possible is just another skillset we can factor in on IGT, instead of having it be a pure liability RTA.

At RTA, several perks go completely nonviable, and while I'm entirely ok with "Some strats are suboptimal", I do feel like how perks interact with Zed time should be considered part of the game's speedrun identity, which works best if they get that benefit of IGT during Zed time.

Ontario, Canada

It all boils down to the fact IGT does not work correctly in the game at present time because of how its implemented and how Zed Time basically makes IGT inconsistent. RTA removes the timing issues and allows for a much more open play style that obviously will require proper use of Zed time and perk combinations to skillfully complete runs in a fast setting on a consistent timing ground.

It seems very clear that those that are not wanting to switch to RTA care not for a fair standard in timing while still playing the game in a competitive setting where adapting strategies and techniques with the games mechanics will greatly show player skill and understanding of runs.

Expect to see some comparisons with runs IGT vs RTA to really show how broken the current timing method is thanks to the poor coding and implementation that is tied to a slow down effect. Simple perspective: 3 seconds RTA = 0.6 seconds IGT during Zed Time (Zed time slows time down to 20%) minimum Zed time = 3 seconds RTA = 0.6 seconds IGT ( minimum activations 1 ) maximum Zed time = 18 seconds RTA = 3.6 seconds IGT ( max activations 6 ) Commando class perks can reset the Zed Time to its maximum of 18 seconds RTA. ( full 3 second resets/extensions) All other classes can only extend it to a maximum of 15.5 seconds RTA. ( 2.5 second resets/extensions) Note this is only the equated difference in time based on the duration in which Zed time can be in effect for, its not perfect math either because they are not truely equivalent.

Part of speedrunning is not always playing the game as intended. I will be putting RTA timing into a Trial period in the coming weeks, you will need to submit both RTA and IGT together during this period. ALL RUNS during this period will be retimed RTA to ensure they are being accurately submitted.

If you have an issue with this then sadly I'm gonna say too bad, you can still talk about it openly as discussion which is fine or directly or go speak to an SRDC site staff member and voice your opinion to them. I'm not going to shy away from making sure things are tracked accurately and fairly.

Edited by the author 3 years ago
Texas, USA

I strongly disagree with the assertion that I don't care about "fair timing".

I'm actively advocating for staying with a timing convention that benefits my competition over myself.

Do me a favor. Compare first and second place in hard/long burning Paris at rta vs igt.

My hard work into a sixteen second win will become me winning by more than a minute if we swap to RTA.

I'm actively arguing against a timing system that distinctly favors the perk I run with, and being accused of "not wanting fair timing". That's crap. Firebug is one of the only perks that can go entire runs with almost no benefit earned from zed time, and I run it nearly exclusively.

Disagree with my logic and conclusions all you want, but do NOT falsely malign my motives.

Ontario, Canada

Present facts and testing has been proving IGT as an unreliable way to continue to track runs.

I'm sorry if this is hard to grasp but sadly it's just not something we can ignore when the simplest way to resolve multiple issues is to switch to RTA.

And my statements were general not going to target out people for being incorrect or disagreeing with this.

My apologies, but I'll be speaking to an srdc staff member about this for some guidance to see if there is alternatives we've yet to consider.

Texas, USA

Watch the condescension. There's nothing "hard to grasp" about the issues with IGT.

There's just also serious issues with RTA.

Dealing with zed time is part of "solving" the game. It's not entirely a benefit, particularly in solo categories, as evidenced by the fact that berserker and firebug are solid perks. Switching to RTA is not just "fixing timing", it's adding thirty to sixty seconds to dozens of times on the leaderboard from about half of the perks, on a game that's been timed with IGT for a couple of years now.

There's definitely not some zed time abuse strat that breaks the game for IGT.

In fact, I think the best argument against IGT is pausing to collect thoughts in solo. That's something people can do, and it's far more problematic, but also easily dealt with in verification if we wanted to.

At the end of the day, I'm open to actual dialogue on the problem, but so far that effort seems to be getting tossed to the wayside, which is why I've contacted site staff for assistance with the problem as you yourself suggested.

Texas, USA

So it's been a couple weeks of quiet on this front.

Ontario, Canada

Indeed and I have yet to hear back about this, I personally have been busy with Charity event stuff but I did have a chat with @The_Numbers_Mason , there is no reason why we cannot switch to primary RTA timing for accuracy and to shorten the added time given to runs after the boss is dead and also the inaccurate timing during zed time. IGT can and will be kept at this time for legacy purposes and as an additional form of verification altho not accurate it will give us all a greater visual comparison when it comes to how drastic the differences are with the IGT being so inaccurate.

Starting June 15th we will begin also timing RTA alongside IGT, runners do not have to submit runs with rta time as we will retime the runs to verify them.

Updates to the board rules will be added, Any runs submitted prior to June 15th should remain unaffected.

Edited by the author 3 years ago
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