Forums  /  Kingdom Hearts  /  Re-Adding The Original Gold Crown Category as "Glitchless" & changing timing for ending on gold crown speedrun
  LiquidWiFiLiquidWiFi

I thought I would bring to light the option of bringing back the classic Gold Crown run under a different category.
I would like to bring this category back. It has an entire different showcase & route to the glitched Gold Crown route. Having to beat the Data's AS's and the Cavern of Remembrance showcases the run in an entirely different way. It also shows off basically a 100% Jiminy's Journal Speedrun without all the grinding & mini games. It is a great in-between category.

What are peoples thoughts on this?

As for changing the timing, I see it as completely unneeded to defeat final Xemnas twice, as it does not give you any benefits at the end of the game, and it doesn't have a counter for Gold Crown, like a JJ 100% Speedrun.

I do not see this as an arbitrary category as we have already beaten the game. Compared to a category like Data org where you do not beat the game at all. It also has a pop up for when you get the Gold Crown. So it does have a set end point

Just throwing this out here as an idea. I see no point to retime an extra 15 minutes for no benefits.

 
  ShibShib

I personally agree with both your points. I think Glitchless or even just "No CoR Skip" would require a completely different set of skills to show off in a run, making it worth being its own category. I also know several people personally who said they had interest in learning Gold Crown but then said they no longer wanted to once CoR Skip became a thing. They shouldn't have to be punished by having a 45 min slower time for wanting to do the extra fights. Also I've always been a believer that Gold Crown should end on picking up the final crown since the game already has to be completed once. I don't run the category myself but even as a viewer of it watching someone kill final Xemnas again is just meh.

abandonabandon, FayeLilacFayeLilac and LiquidWiFiLiquidWiFi like this. 
  ItsKasaItsKasa

I agree with this, and it seems like a very entertaining and enjoyable run to me anyway.

 
  sephiroth1277sephiroth1277

I agree, the difference from CoR and data fights is far too large to keep it in its own category, and I think that even if as low as 2-3 people still want to run classic gold crown, then it deserves its own leaderboard slot.

 
  YaBoyBTrueYaBoyBTrue

I can rock it. I think the points you make are solid.

 
  Jords13Jords13

Ye I always felt that using COR skip was cutting out a third of the run which was just too much for me. Like the main reason i enjoy this category is watching data org and skipping it just leaves us with mushrooms and terra.

 
  GoldGold

I already told you when we discussed these points a few months ago. I'm so for this. Beating the game a second time only adds on unnecessary time. Also Gold Crown No CoR Skip was my jam. Totally for it. I already had Data Org routed out for GC Beginner before it started being Skipped OpieOP

 
  beckworth15beckworth15

I've agreed with this since the glitch was found. So count me as a yes

 
  mudspiremudspire

I like the idea of no CoR skip as it showcases some of the most skilled parts of 2fm. Also watching data org fights are always hype. I likey

 
  gusxandigusxandi
(edited: )

Honestly, I agree with you, and I believe that splitting gold crown and getting a glitchless category is a good idea. However, I would like to make a point here since this is already being discussed.

It is about the silver crown level 1 category, the last time that the category was done; there was not the knowledge of the Cor Skip. I am not sure if you get Proof of Nonexistence in this category; if it is not the case ignore this point. So is it fair if it is the case that silver crown level 1 have also a normal and a glitchless category as well (if runners eventually decide to run silver crown level 1)?

Edit: I just realized that there's no way of doing the mushrooms in level 1 unless with boosts.

 
  DrazerkDrazerk

For the name I'd strongly recommend calling it no CoR skip or no major glitches over glitchless just to future proof the category (Case in point Re:Coded and the No Major Glitches category getting renamed or literally any LttP category).

 
  Bizkit047Bizkit047
(edited: )

I'm not sure how many people would actually WANT to run this if it were split. I know I was one of the people who lost interest in the category when the glitch was found (as said, gets rid of the most hype fights of the run), but it seems a bit silly to make another Gold Crown category to try to fix this when there were only a few runners in the first place. I'm not planning to fight the idea though, if that's what is preferred by people then sounds good to me personally, since many other communities have to split categories over big skips/glitches. Hopefully the "No CoR Skip" category gets new runners though, otherwise it's pointless.

As for different timing, I'm fully against it because it goes against the way we have always timed non-arbitrary categories. They have always been new game to final boss hit ending. If you change this for Gold Crown then it should be changed for all the other long categories that also require beating the game more than once (JJ 100%/100%/Plat/Silver Crown). Wouldn't make sense to single out Gold Crown only. Personally, I find it more interesting to end runs on a final boss hit as well instead of when you complete the category objective.

ItsKasaItsKasa likes this. 
  LiquidWiFiLiquidWiFi
(edited: )

I agree with changing the timing for Silver crown and Plat, But the 100% categories have a counter at the end, and need that for verification of actually completing 100%. So I don't agree to changing for those categories specifically.

ItsKasaItsKasa likes this. 
  Bizkit047Bizkit047

Both 100% categories are timed to final boss hit though, unless I missed some change that I didn't hear of. 100% JJ is confirmed through a simple menu check anyway before final bosses and full 100% is only verifiable through the final screen, but we still don't time to there even though the recordings should go to that point (pretty pointless to time to there anyway, since there is no player input past final boss hit). So I still don't really see why you would change the timing for only a few of those and not all when all the categories currently time until final boss hit.

 
  ItsKasaItsKasa

Plat, Silver and Gold crown have a tell when you achieve that %. So using those as a timing method would work. However, because of previous times, we would have to re-time their PB's and would take some work. If we're going to implement it, we will need to converse with those involved, and allow them the chance to agree or disagree to these new terms.

 
  GoldGold
(edited: )

Most of us, If not all have/had a split for achieving Gold/Silver Crown. So retiming the runs won't require that much work. I'm mostly on the side of Liquid here. 100% categories should end on Final Hit because of the 100% counter at the end of the credits. Gold Crown/Silver Crown does not have these counters so ending it when you achieve it make sense. If people want to go finish the game again after the run is over then they can do so.

ItsKasaItsKasa likes this. 
  LiquidWiFiLiquidWiFi

Since nothing more has been said, and everyone here seems to be in favor of splitting the categories, I've done so. If there are any problems with this, it can be very easily changed back.

The timing will need to have more discussion.

 
  JHobzJHobz
(edited: )

I'm not really in favor of splitting the categories for basically the same reason Biz said: Are there going to be runners for both categories who care about their times for both. Personally, I'd love to JUST have the No CoR Skip category (and just call it Gold Crown but ban it in the rules) since I doubt many (if any) people will continue to care about their glitched runs with both categories existing. If others disagree though and plan to actually care about both categories, then that's fine, leave them both.

On that topic, I also would love to see Silver Crown Level 1 removed as a category since it
a) has no competition (there's only 1 run)
😎 has no videos associated with it whatsoever (the only run has no video)
c) is even MORE arbitrary than Gold Crown and does not really signify full completion of anything
d) has had no interest in it (in the form of runs) for almost 2 years
I can start a separate thread about that in the 2FM forum if requested.

On the point of time change, I 100% agree with Liquid. This is actually something I've mentioned to several people for over a year, but never brought up publicly because I don't run the game. I think for 100% categories that can be verified after credits, you should split on final boss hit but record until verification, and for categories that already have to beat the boss once (such as Gold Crown) you should split on achieving the desired goal. Under this criteria, all runs using the old timing could still be valid and easily retimed. As another example, I believe Platinum Trophy RTA in KHFMHD should end its timing on seeing the Platinum Trophy notification pop up, which (if routed properly), would mean your timer would continue to run through the credits of your third playthrough until the notification appeared at the end.

If people have strong feelings of opposition to any of these points, I'd love to hear them.

Edit: As an aside, I recommend having discussions about specific games like this in their respective game forums in the future to keep things organized and also since followers of those games can sign up to get email notifications for those forums, unlike the series one.

ShibShib likes this. 
  Bizkit047Bizkit047

As I've said, you have to beat the game once for all of these categories normally. If you have Gold Crown/Plat end early, you should allow 100% JJ to follow that as well. 100% JJ can be confirmed on a single screen at any time you complete the journal, or if someones playing 2.5 a trophy would confirm it too. If anything, only full 100% (the category no one really runs anyway) would be an issue here, since while you can confirm it by showing the Journal and every route on the World Map, it isn't an instant proof thing like only showing Journal, or obtaining a crown/trophy.

 
  LiquidWiFiLiquidWiFi

See the thing is, Plat and gold crown both have pop ups for when you obtain them. JJ doesn't so there's not exactly a definitive way to end timing.

 
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