Kenshi Forum  /  Rules Suggestion
  AizaAiza

I suggest we follow similar rule standardization to those given by the Kenshi devs for egg%. Although these rules weren't clear at first, their broad ideas for what should and should not be included in a speedrun is fair and legitimate. Egg% also sets a precedent for kenshi speedrunning as it is the first category to receive widespread attention.

Especially important I think is not allowing shift+F12, reset squad position, imports, and modifications to gameplay and advanced gameplay settings. They may save a lot of time in certain runs, especially when creatively used, but these are not gameplay features, nor are they glitches, exploits, or bugs, they are basic tools for either modifying the base game, or troubleshooting issues such as NPCs not spawning or player characters being caught on terrain.

I think they should get a separate category of some kind... like an "editor," "modified," or "advanced" category... can't think of a good name yet to be honest.

Also, sidenote, all the runs that use shift+f12+save/load/reset can save time by spawning a chair, sitting in it, then changing the chair coordinates to a memorized X and Y. For some reason I cannot comment on speedrun.com yet, so I can't say that under any of those runs.

 
  GulchGulch

I think you're right in specifying runs more as editor/no editor instead of how I have it. I've also had the same problem with it being incredibly difficult to name what each category means because it's so broad.

I also think though, a lot of the things that lofi games set as rules for speedrunning were really odd and poorly thought out, and while I agree that I'd like to have a more thought out rules list, I don't think that exactly what they set is a good precedent.

I will try and think of a more sound editor/no editor or whatever it will be called set of rules and apply it to all. If you have anything to add just say it here.

By the way, the one using the chair thing in the egg hunt was me. Also, did someone post the speedrun community recently or something? There has been an influx of attention here.

 
  GulchGulch
(edited: )

Okay, I've decided for now on Limited/Unlimited as sub-categories (I can change it whenever if someone comes up with a better description).

 
  AizaAiza
(edited: )

Ah, I thought you submitted a run at some point to egg%, but couldn't remember. That chair teleport was great. And yes, Lofi themselves has tweeted asking runners to submit egg% runs here whilst they still sort through all of the submissions: https://twitter.com/KenshiOfficial/status/1523689153845612546?cxt=HHwWhMCqsc3NnaUqAAAA

I prefer not giving a name for the avoidance of using said tools, or rather, calling it "standard" or something along those lines, but I like the idea of categorizing the use of the tools as "unlimited" or "limitless."

Saving and loading I'm fine with, but I do believe "reset squad position" or imports shouldn't be allowed outside of limitless, just to reiterate. Only thing that's worth noting is that rapid saving and reloading is a method of despawning all NPCs in an area, including player characters, so maybe it'd effect death% depending on how you ruled it, which would make it a very unimpressive run. Based on the wording of the kenshi developers it seems to me they were against the idea of using saves to retry sections of the run in the case of player death, which I can only really speculate to the reasoning of. Either way, I can't really think of a reason for not allowing saves or loads right now.

 
  GulchGulch

Yea, I'll make resetting positions and imports not allowed. I still think reloading should be allowed, but I don't know how to word it to say "don't rapidly do it in order to despawn everything" in a more concise way.

I am kind very mixed on save-scumming. On one hand, it still makes you lose some time and prevents you from potentially doing the same thing on repeat, but it also makes the game easier and if the purpose of not changing any setting is to make the game "normal" it kind of defeats the point a bit.

 
  AizaAiza

Yeah, timeloss is partially why I don't really mind save-scumming. But further, it's not like the modification/repair tools I mentioned where it's not supposed to be part of regular gameplay. Saving and loading are not only intended features to be used every game session, but ones your average player uses multiple times in the average gaming session, and savescumming isn't all that uncommon of a exploit of an otherwise intended feature in any game.

Only potential issue I see with save scumming is if it's being done solely to do mega unstable strats that turns a potentially 20 minute run with routing and tech into 15 minutes of just trying a singular RNG roll over and over. And TBH, if that happens we can rewrite the rules to save Kenshi speedruns from being horrible. Like, we are allowed to make one or two arbitrary rulings just to make the speedrun actually enjoyable if it ever comes down to it, hah -- we don't have to always have a super logical reasoning about what is a glitch or not, or what is intended or not. And we can slightly skew those mega logical reasonings to better support making the run just more fun and competitive as well. XD

 
  GulchGulch

Fuck it. I'll just allow save scumming and reloading but prefice it with not usable to glitch the game.

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