United StatesI can post mine when I can get back to my desktop if I don’t have them on iCloud. It took me hours to get the right seed when I was trying to set them up. Running this game off of a flash cart instead of an original cart could be miserable.
After a lot of discussion, we made a few changes regarding emulators. Rather than making a separate category, Emulators (FCEUX and Nestopia) will be allowed on all categories. There will be a few restrictions in Any% and Pamela Powerups due to the nature of how uncommon those seeds are because of the above mentioned advantages on resets from an emulator.
For Any%, times above 3 minutes will be accepted on emulators, but times below 3 will not. Since there are only 9 times on the board that are sub 3 right now we'll figure out exactly how to handle sub 3 times on emulator if/when one gets submitted, but it didn't make sense to try and figure out that detail now and hold everything else up.
For Pamela powerups, times up to the WR will be allowed on emulator, but WR times will need to be run on original hardware.
The remaining categories (Low%, Damageless, Throw Debbie off a Cliff, and Kill All Counselors) have no time restrictions for emulators. If we create any new categories in the future, we'll make a determination on how to handle emulators at that time.
As mentioned above, the accepted emulators at this time will be FCEUX and NEStopia. I think all of the individual categories have been updated to show emulator specifics, but just in case, the full emulator window will need to be included so the name and version of the emulator are visible, and we will also need to see the end of the prior run or the startup (which is really no different than original hardware, the overwhelming majority of runs show power up or the prior reset already), so that part isn't really any different.
Emulator runs should be visible across all leaderboards now as well. If there are any questions or clarifications needed on anything I forgot to mention here, please let us know.
Happy Slashing!
We have nothing against emulators and their use, however in this particular game they give players using an emulator an unfair advantage over people playing on original hardware due to a unique aspect in the games programming. There's a ton of information about that in this thread: https://www.speedrun.com/friday13/thread/amr24
Dugongue's post in that thread explains it better than I ever could. "The RNG in the game is based on the global timer, which is initialized by adding together all the memory addresses in the range 0x000-0x7FF. On emulator, these have a constant value at power-on, so the starting global timer will always be the same from a hard reset. However, on console, memory addresses are not constant, they actually vary on power-on until they are written over. As a result, the global timer will be initialized at a "random" value even from a hard reset on console.
I think this was intentional on the part of the programmers to make the RNG functionally impossible to predict."
This game is very reset heavy because in order to do a run once you reach a certain point, you need Mark in the northwest corner of the lake loop, you need a buzzer to go off, and you need Paul in the bottom middle cabin. If you don't get that, you reset. Emulators can't properly reproduce the resets in the way that original hardware can, so that's where the distinct advantage comes in for emulators. They allow you to manipulate the starting RNG seed in a way that original hardware can't. The games you mentioned above don't have starting RNG or anything like this game does, so emulators don't provide an advantage in one way or another, so they're allowed. Other games like Willow allow emulator times to be posted, but don't allow competitive times if run on an emulator in order to keep things fair, so that may be something we could discuss as well.
Most if not all of us practice our runs on emulators or flash carts where we can have a save state of the right seed, that way we're ready to go. PGH was using an emulator a few nights ago on his twitch stream to research the starting seeds relative to the frame you press start on to see if we could find some way to manipulate that on console, but it just can't be reproduced equally, or even close to equally.
I understand the frustration because owning original hardware and the original cart (or a flash cart) are both pretty large cost barriers to running the game. Emulator runs can still be seen on the boards (there are 9 of them on Any% right now), you just have to choose to show emulator runs when you look at the boards. I realize it's not the same, but it's not fair to the people who have played on original hardware and suffered through the endless resets either.
That being said, I think a separate category could definitely be discussed, but there are a lot of things we'd need to figure out should we decide to implement it. Do we just do Emulator Any%? Do we make emulator sections for every category, so we have Emulator Low%, Emulator Pamela Powerups, Emulator Throw Debbie off a Cliff, etc? Would it end up looking similar to the boards we already have now with most of the same people submitting similar times on emulators, with a few new faces?
I'd love to hear input of other runners of this game to see what they think, since this would be a pretty significant change that impacts their times as well. Would people like things to stay as they are with emulator times hidden, do we add separate categories, or do something like Willow does where we allow emulator times to be shown by default, but don't accept them if they're above certain levels?
For those that aren’t aware, we have 3 new categories to run!
Throw Debbie off a Cliff (thanks Cheese!), Kill All Counselors, and Damageless.
We can frame count any new runs that come in as well, so don't feel like you can't submit or that your run will get rejected if it isn't frame counted.
I've wanted to see that glitch happen since you mentioned it, so that's fun!
My impression after seeing how it works in action is that runs where that happens should be allowed. We can see Jason doing the little flicker when he dies before the best ending screen in history appears, and since you can't move to another area when Jason's on the screen and alive (I just tested that to be 100% certain), that's another piece that tells us he's legitimately dead. Since time ends on the final hit and not the ending screen, there's enough there for me to feel comfortable accepting those runs. That's my two cents at least!
No problem! I went back and added the emulater version and such in the notes and approved it right away after I saw it. I don't know the prior mod, but that seems like a really bad reason to reject a run.
I started moderating a game that had no mods for a while, and when I was poking around I saw a rejected run from the prior mod.
They rejected the run because the person submitting it didn't include the emulator and version of the emulator they were using in the notes. Both of those things were very clearly visible in the video itself because the capture included the full emulator window with name and version.
Not sure if anybody else is interested in trying this category, but I posted a guide for the route I use and how I've been handling Jason on the path fights just in case. I feel like an absolutely perfect run could probably finish at a little over 14 minutes on the current route, but it would involve not taking any damage from Jason until you're about 100-110 hits in on Day 3 to get to that point.
I lost half a dozen runs to my cats. One in particular seems to know when there's a part that requires me to focus, and she'll jump on my lap and start walking around and poking at the controller. If she doesn't get the attention she wants she gets up and sits down right in the middle of the tv. It can be maddening.
I'm not 100% sure how resetting from the menu works on an Everdrive as far as the RNG goes. I would assume it provides some kind of benefit though, as the game rules state all resets need to be done from the console itself on official runs.
When I was setting up my savestates on the N8 Pro, I had a really difficult time getting the right seed when I was just doing plain old resets on the console. It wasn't until I started hitting the power button instead of just resetting that I ended up with the right seed. I spent about 3 hours doing resets with a bunch of no buzzers before I powered off and got the right seed around 15 minutes later. I can't say you'll have the same experience, but if you're having trouble getting any runs going on your N8 Pro try powering off and then on again.
Good luck on the runs!
I tested it out with save states (if anybody wants to see how it works out, it can be found below)
The game does count you getting the crown after death, and the crown doesn't respawn. You end up getting automatically warped out shortly after respawning. Because of that, my thought process would be that should that happen in a live run, time would end when you touch the crown even if you die before warping out because the game counts any item pickups that happen within that extra second or so.
As far as this turning up in a live run, I don't know if that's something we'd really see. The ghosts didn't start spawning in the room until I jumped over the crown and started moving around to the left of it. It actually took a few tries to jump over the crown without collecting it, so I feel like the odds of that happening during a speedrun will probably end up being pretty low, but it's good to know just in case!
Now that I understand more about how the NES version works I’m torn.
If the crown remains after you respawn and you have to go collect it again before going into the ending sequence, the game doesn’t seem to believe you actually grabbed the final treasure so I’d lean towards it having to be collected again before time officially stops.
If the crown is gone when you respawn and the ending sequence is triggered by just getting up to the platform where the crown was, the game considers the item collected and I’d lean towards time stopping when you get the crown even though you’re technically dead.
I’m going to see if I can get this to happen with save states and check back in if I’m able to.
Excellent, thanks, I'll have to check him out! I was able to get out of Day 1 without any real trouble, but got my face caved in on Day 2 as things went on. Day 3 seems like it'd be so bad, but it's still a good change of pace from the constant resets, even if it takes so much time.
Has anybody attempted this one? It seems like it would be insanely difficult since you're not only fighting Jason, but accidental item pickups as well. There's a growing part of me that wants to try it anyway though, just to see if I could get out of Day 1.
My assumption would be that the timer stops right as you grab that treasure even if it doesn't go to the end credits since that's what the run rules state, but I'm not positive on that. A moderator would probably have to clarify, but it doesn't appear that there is one for this game. Is your run still pending moderation?
