Hocus Pocus Forum  /  Redefining Rules/Categories
  PandoraPandora

With the brand new gamebreaking glitch, we need to redefine the rules or categories of the game. I see two options:

1: Just merge everything, and allow everything except cheats

2: Make an Any% category which allow everything except cheats, and convert the old categories to "All Stages" in which is not allowed to have accidental wrong warp or the new save warp (and of course, no cheats)

 
  PandoraPandora

It actually works with every level regardless of episode. Like: every episode will take the same amount of time separately with the new glitch (just doing level 1 Ep 1, 9 times).

Also Moderate and Easy have the same strats on Lvl1 ep1, just hard will make a little difference.

The "All Episodes" full-game category with the glitch will be doing lvl1 ep1 36 times (if the objective is to reach the credits of every episode)

 
  BismuthBismuth
(edited: )

I was thinking two of two possible options:

1. Ban the use of save files as part of a run. This would make the glitch usable to skip the first level of episodes 2, 3 and 4 only, by playing ep 1 level 1 first and using the glitch to clear level 1, and it would save some time because the other episodes' level 1 is longer (it could save up to 1:30 in episode 4). But because you would need a save file to use it anywhere else, that would limit the scope of the glitch, which would allow for the use of this very odd trick, while keeping its brokenness at bay.

2. Create two categories. Any% would be busted, and the other one could be named Any% Single Segment (no quitting the game = no level skip) or Any% No Level Skip.

Also, I'd like to point out that the glitch was found by Melonax yesterday, and not by me.

 
  PandoraPandora

Shoutouts to Melonax for the discover!

I personally prefer the second option, because banning level skip also tackles the problem of accidental level skip (sometimes when you enter a new level you just get warped to the next one inmediately). The accidental level skip is absolutely random as far as I know, and rare enought to just broke a category (I have some "PB's" with minutes ahead of my normal PB's even with bad execution, because of a random level skip).

In this case I'll stick with "Any% No Level Skip" and the broken "Any%" for single-episodes.

And for all episodes I think it's a great idea to just ban savefiles and accidental level skip, so that way the first levels can be skipped and we don't need to create more categories for full-game

pd: If it sounds too inconsistent, then I'll stick with option 1, just ban savefiles and accidental level skip from single-episodes and all-episodes

 
  BismuthBismuth

When h ave you gotten a random level skip? Were you in normal play, or were you getting this right as you reset a run?

 
  PandoraPandora

normal play, and on multiple levels, I'll upload a video in my channel with some of them today

 
  PandoraPandora

little update:

I rewatched all my videos of glitches and, effectively, every level skip was at the beginning of a run (i.e. at level 1 of some episode, so I probably reset the previous run right at the end of other level and never noticed xD). I quite remember having a random level skip in level 4 of episode 2 (right after beating level 3, just at the beginning of level 4, no saves, etc), the problem is that I have no proof because I don't see it on my videos (probably was during practice x_X). So I guess I can't prove there is a random level skip =/.

I think is ok to just ban savefiles and cheats, allowing the new glitch without using savefiles for all categories

 
  MelonaxMelonax

I agree with banning save files, since just playing ep 1 lvl 1 an x amount of times is ridiculous lol. That just turns the game into a meme run.

Having two categories would be good. If I understand correctly, 'no level skip' would mean you CAN'T use the glitch for episode 2-4 runs, but any% would allow it?
For episode 1 there would still only be one category I guess, cuz you cant (ab)use the glitch for it anyway, unless you start the game in a NG+ fashion with the glitch already 'enabled', but I assume thats not allowed.

Also (this is slightly off-topic but I guess it still fits since this is about rules): with regards to the random luck thingy, very very rarely you randomly (afaik) get both keys without getting them yourself, which would save a lot of time. Would that be allowed in a run?

 
  PandoraPandora

With two Categories "Any%" would allow the glitch in both individual episode and all episodes, while "no level skip" would be like the runs I already have. And yeah, for episode 1 I think isn't necessary to make another category (but we can do the NG+ if someone wants to run that).

About the off-topic (thanks for bring that up, it's super important). The Random Bonus Glitch (RBG) gives you any bonus item at ANY random moment, this includes rapid, laser, full heal and both keys (no super jump sadly). The only way to "manipulate" this is at the beginning of the level with the hold up or two up inputs for rapid and laser, I tried many ways to manipulate getting keys but I never succeded -__-. I got both keys randomly at some runs but is like 1 out of 30 runs and at a complete random moment (when might not be useful). So for me at least, if think it would be unfair to allow it while we don't have a consistent way to do it (like rapid/lasers at the beginning of the levels).

And of course, if there is away to do it consistenly, that's several minutes choped from ALL categories xD (specially ep. 4)

 
  PandoraPandora
(edited: )

Ok, here are my final thoughts in the subject:

- I think it's better to not add more categories since the comunity is quite small to have so many of them (currently there are 3 difficulties times 4 episodes, so 12 individual levels. Also 3 difficulties for full-game. With the new glitch we'll almost duplicate the # of categories).

- In my opinion, we should just maintain the same name categories and just change the rules to allow the level skip but ban the usage of savefiles, cheats, and accidental bonus of both keys. With that, in individual levels: Episode 1 will be the same, and the others will be open for new runs with the level skip (yeah no more level 1 of episode 2, 3 and 4)

- If you agree with the points above, we still need to discuss one last thing for all-episodes: do we need to 'see' the credits of all episodes? or just 'beat' every level? This makes a huge difference, because if we decide the second option, then we can use the last level of Eps 1,2 and 3 to set up the glitch for the next episodes, just quitting right before the credits of the episode. While in the first option, we need to set up the glitch on level 1 ep 1 after every episode.

 
  MelonaxMelonax

I agree to the points above. I'd say 2nd option, just beat the level and immediately exit out to menu and skip the first level of the next episode. Playing ep 1 level 1 every time would be a pain and this would keep the flow going a bit more I think.

PandoraPandora likes this. 
  PandoraPandora

So now with the new knowledge (shoutouts to xDarkEdge!) we need to adjust the rules a little again.

We already talked a few things, basically it will not be allowed to reset the cheat variable with the inputs 'B', 'F' or 'Q'. also it is not allowed to use the ESCAPE menu to reset the counter. Level skip it's still allowed without using savefiles.

The last important thing is if we allow to reset the counter be using a non intended combination to get the counter to the FEELGOOD value. This is important because it might be the only way to get Lasers AND Keys at the beginning of the level. On the other hand Rapid AND Keys doesn't require to reset the counter, since the setup allows us to go from the QUARK value to the BLAKE value without reseting the counter.

Regardless of the last paragraph, there might be a setup for Lasers AND Keys without using the FEELGOOD reset, but it might be less consistent.

PD: We already used the FEELGOOD reset 'by accident' in the past with the 'L' 12 times setup for the Keys xD

 
  PandoraPandora

UPDATE: There is now a setup for Lasers AND Keys without reseting the counter, and is way faster and safer xD

 
  AbelXAbelX

will the mods made a Leaderbord for the "Any% - No Glitches" ?

 
  PandoraPandora

Only if someone is willing to consistenlty run that category.

 
  PandoraPandora
(edited: )

If you are interested on Ep.1 glitchless, you can check out Bismuth's PB on the leaderboards or my 15:08 run on my youtube channel. Those two are from the glitchess era.

 
Latest News
View all
No news
Recent Threads
View all
Thread Author
In-Game Time
Last post
PandoraPandora
1 replies
About key-mapping and macros
Last post
PandoraPandora
8 replies
Images of the game
Last post
PandoraPandora
1 replies
Redefining Rules/Categories
Last post
PandoraPandora
15 replies
Steam Version
Last post
PandoraPandora
0 replies