Hey there,

so after having had several people trying to get the Elevator Skip to mission 18, we've so far had different success. Some strats work for some people and for others not. Some can't get through the doors at all at the moment. In my opinion this M18 Elevator skip needs to have a seperate topic since it is the main issue in the any% category. I feel it is important to get a setup for everyone. That's why I would like everybody to share your setups to get this skip working for others to come.

Here is my approach of getting through the doors.

There is 3 doors, the big torch door, the first elevator door, and the second elevator door. I've made four seperate videos; 3 for getting through the doors successfully, and one for slipping out of the first elevator door when trying to get through the second elevator door. (What you see mostly are the successful attempts. Sometimes it took some time to get through. This time you can think of as "working" the door. I dont know what this working part could be responsible for in eventually getting through.) This is a crucial point in getting this setup done, and the hardest part for those who didn't get through the door at all. I can't exactly tell you yet how it works, and i hope that we can figure this out together by looking at the material.

M18 Elevator Skip: First Door

M18 Elevator Skip: First Elevator Door

Slipping out of the second Elevator door majorly is imo a result of wrong alignment, but also of the two states to be within the space between first and second elevator door. There is a state where you're kind of periodically getting pushed like a pulse, and there is one state where you're not. I feel like it is a question of momentum, the running and the pulsating, the bobbing back and forth when running within the door.

My setup when being in the door is to walk up to the middle of the door, which you cannot pass. The goal is to get behind the middle of the first elevator door to be kind of pressed into the second elevator door and, if everything goes right, into the elevator itself. To achieve that, I align my cursor in the middle at or above the line in this picture.

http://imgur.com/a/IM5OK

http://imgur.com/a/oW9lO

¤unsure¤ The closer I look to the corner of the floor panel, but always below an imaginary line (first line) from one corner to the other, the easier I slip into the middle between the elevator doors, but the higher is my risk to actually slip out in some situations it seems. The further I look to the right (along the second line, which seems to be a good vertical compensation for horizontally looking further to the right), the harder it is for me to slip into the middle, but the safer I am not to slip out. I never point the cursor inside the floor panel. ¤unsure¤

M18 Elevator Skip: First Elevator Door Slip out

M18 Elevator Skip: Second Elevator Door

The scrollspeed between the two elevator doors to get into the elevator has to be moderate, but a little quick. If it is too fast, you slip out or get stuck; inputs eat themselves. If you are too slow, you dont get into the middle and cant progress into the elevator.

So this is my experience with it. As you can see, slip outs happened often. I activated vsync in the beginning to try stuff, and feel like this could cause the slip outs while not using vsync at all makes it more consistent to get through having the cursor pointed to the panel corner. But I dont know yet :)

Greetings qd

Hey there,

we have been investigating Crouchclipping and Vsync-Clipping or -Teleporting for some days now. This is not a lot of time. However, a lot of reports have come in that make clear that these glitches not work for everyone the same and have individual components.

What I have heard so far is:

• that fps rates (which seem to be crucial to getting these skips) differ a great deal from setup to setup
• that some clips are easy for some, difficult for others, and impossible for others again
• that the length of having the game open and performing these glitches influences the probability of a crouch- or vsynch-clip to work
• that during a full run weird to bug-like occurences seem to happen for some runners (mostly All missions because its longer and these situations get more obvious)

The problem we are facing here is nothing less but the comparability of runs which is the fundament of a leaderboard. If these new glitches are random, we will only find out by collecting experiences by every runner. This not only means experiences in short term practice sessions, but in runs.

I suggest and would like to ask all of you to share your experiences possibly about all the skips (door by door) how difficult or easy you can do them, how you do them, and what setup you use. This way we will get to a common ground.

This is in my opinion a necessary and thorough step to not only understand this glitch better, but to make it work for a speedgame status. I still think, it is a great improvement. And I'm looking forward to see it properly working.

Greetings qd

¤Updated strats¤ Hey there my happy fellows,

this truly amazing find we have give big shoutouts for to Infomastr and Chimpaneez. They tried it out and got it working. Good Job!

There now are several things involving this new finding. First:

1. How far is it applicable?

2. What do we need to change in our leaderboards, as in new categories?

3. Do we maybe need to adjust rules, as in fps-caps, macros, or scripts to change binds within a run?

4. How far is it applicable? There are several conditions making this thing work (assumably so far): a) The door must somehow not be protected by a wall that will first be removed after completing objectives or pressing buttons (elevators) b) Not all doors are skippable. (will update this with screenshots later) c) The higher the fps, the easier the clip.

The following skips have been found (with rough timesafe estimations compared against my last run): (will be updated with clips) M2: M2 2-Big-Doors-Skip = 1:00-1:10 (minutes)

M2: M2-Skip: Skips basically all of M2

M6: Keycard-Door-Skip: 0:20 M6: Hideout-Door-Skip: M6: Vent Skip at the end: 1:25

M7: Keycard-Door-Skip (involves skipping Hacking and killing the joe): 0:30 (didn't get it)

M10: Systech Lobby Vent Skip: 2:00

M11 5-Doors-Skip: 1:30 (if decently fast)

M12: Generator Room Skip: 0:35

M12: Samuels Death door skip: 0:50

M13: Apollo-Skip:

M14: Start Elevator Skip: 0:15

M14: Tram Obstacle Skip: 0:05

M14: Lifted Car Skip: 0:50

M14: Reactor Elevator Door Skip: ?? (doesn't seem to work because of the different levels the elevator connects

M14: Reactor-Elevator-Skip: 0:15

M15: Ambulance Door Hack Skip: 0:08 (didn't get that in my first tries)

M15: Anesidora Hugger Door Skip: 1:45 M15: Two Hack Door Skips: 0:07

M16: Control-Room-Skip:

These are working skips. The total amount of time saved could be (if fast) about 11 minutes.

2. What do we need to change in our leaderboards, as in new categories?

These skips are big, but not as big that they couldn't be understood as a "natural" evolution of Any% strats. Therefore I think having this glitch being used in Any% would be ok.

Macros and Rules: On the other hand, going down this road, we might find further skips that rely on this technique, but might only be achieved by the use of macros, outside tools. Then we could also take the Ps4-Exclusive in and had to make a new category.

Who is interested in keeping the old run as it is? I find it charming only having the peekclip in it, but I'm not clingy about it I think.

3)Do we maybe need to adjust rules, as in fps-caps, macros, or scripts to change binds within a run?

This touches the question of seperate categories.

Scripts: Since you may have to have mwheel up and mwheel down bound to "crouch" to achieve this, you might within a run not be able to have mwheel used for "use". Then we would have to have scripts to change these binds to activate generators fastly. Does this even work?

FPS-Cap: Not all of the runners that have tested this glitch so far did get through all of the doors we know can be clipped through. This is very likely due to fps-differences. How do we handle this? I have no idea.

First report. A lot to do. I like it ;)

Greetings qd

Well if there was a way to include qs / ql without those interfering with an autosplitter, we could use it for runs. Otherwise runs will have to be timed by manual splits as usual.

Pretty nice.

There is a trigger for this scene to start. If you want to check that again, use the command g_showTriggers "1" in the console to see this trigger. I can only jump over this trigger with a duck-jump.

And hey Leyto7! What about you renewing your time on RBDoom :()

Greetings qd

If it is easy to do, I guess it would be great :D Does it interfere with manual qs/ql ?

¤edit I thought about it again, and I think we should include cutscenes and their skipping into ingame time. It's part of the player action, and it's usually done that way. This is part of the rules now!

The Time without loads can't be missing on the leaderboards now since it is the priority time now. That's why I had to simply take the time with loads as time without loads.

120 and 60 fps are the only two possible decisions in BFG Edition or RBDoom in the settings.The reason it doesn't work for 120fps is that delay between the level load (or after that the quicksave) and the cutscene. During this time, the game thinks you're ingame. That's why it doesn't skip the cutscene but goes to the menu. Holding escape doesn't make a difference there.

Hey there

"Mars City 1", "Enpro", "Monorail" and "CPU" have cutscenes right after the level load. When playing on 120fps, there is a delay between a level load and a cutscene between 0.8 and 1.35 seconds on my system adding up to about 4.6 seconds. This delay does not exist on 60fps settings. (You can test this with Livesplit Load Remover having the Ingame Timer timing cutscenes out.)

When loading up a new level, there is a short time when the game quicksaves the beginning of this next level. On 60 fps in those 4 levels it is possible to press escape during the quicksave and skip the cutscenes before they even start. In 120 fps the same escape press during the quicksave sends you directly to the menu.

So additionally to the timeloss of these delays you will also lose your individual reaction time to skip the cutscene and perhaps the time for the cutscene to end and the game to start again (in case we decide to have cutscenes counted as ingame time).

This whole thing also goes for RoE and LM.

I'm not sure we need rules for this so far. So just fyi.

Greetings qd

I've finally tested the new Load Remover. It is precisely stopping the timer when starting a load (unlike my timer). It is timing out skippable cutscenes reliably if you want it to.

I am undecided what would be the best decision on having cutscenes removed from time or not. I know it takes more time to skip cutscenes on worse setups, so basically they have to be timed out completely. That this is a player action I find negligible. So I'm for timing cutscenes out.

Please @ other runners: share your opinion on this.

The Ingame-Time will finally be prioritised. Now is a good time to find the proper handling for this.

Greetings qd

Thx for your work TheLonerD. In my opinion it doesn't matter that much wheather cutscenes are part of the ingame time or not. On the other hand, it is a part of a run to skip the cutscenes as soon as possible. You have to know when they will be and be prepared to cut them immediately. In that respect it involves an action of the player.

What's the opinion of other players on this?

Greetings

Hey,

so TheLonerD, as I've seen you introduced your own version of a Doom 3 Autosplitter: https://raw.githubusercontent.com/TheLonerD/Doom3asl/master/Doom3.asl

Can you tell us what's new about it?

Greetings qd

Hey there,

just for fun I tried to speedrun the game on Nightmare yesterday (turned out to be a fast playthrough):

It is quite demanding. There are no rocket or grenade jumps because the blast kills you immediately. So this would be a pure trickless route which is also nice I think. Health management is obviously very different because of the soul cube. Some passages either have to be grinded to perfection or are impassable without qs/ql. Some of the recruit Any% route is still working. Lots of additional enemies made me choke a lot of times. I might have died somewhat between 50-100 times. I guess a good time could be around 1:30. This of course also means: There is lots of unrouted territory which is a good thing. (I tried to have Real Time and Game Time run next to each other but must've done something wrong. So sorrily both timers show Real Time now.)

It was pretty much fun, and it convinced me that this indeed can be a valuable new category. So maybe have a look at the vod to get an idea of it. It would be nice to get enough people interested :)

Greetings qd

It also doesn't work on BFG Edition for me. But it works on the RBDoom3BFG. Didn't check vanilla version but i'm sure it's not gonna work there.

Hey there,

thank you all for your comments.

The different Doom3 versions differe in physics that's right. The question is, if we need a seperate Category for the RBDoom3BFG version on livesplit.

I don't think we really need an autosplitter. Load Remover is just enough for this game i think. I'm not really a programmer so I wouldn't really know how to do it right now. Also this base adress is working for every kind of load. Sticking an autosplitter to this adress will not work im sure (however it works).

Did anybody try the Load Remover and check if it worked? It works for me and SuicideMachine. If it works for all of you right now, we use it. If it doesn't work anymore on later builds (not earlier builds!) then we can still change it.

Greetings qd

Hey there,

so the argument has been brought forward that RBDoom3BFG is a different game than Doom 3 BFG Edition and Vanilla Doom 3. Those other versions of the game don't have seperate leaderboards nor do they have distinct livesplit entries. Since I've been playing the game, Livesplit only had "Doom 3" as an entry for this game; it contains Any%, Ressurection of Evil and Lost Mission as categories. It never had an autosplitter or load remover to be activated as well.

The question is if these games should be seperated in Livesplit. In my personal opinion they shouldn't be since RBDoom3BFG is the now standardised competitive version of the game. You don't need a load remover if you're not going for times on leaderboards.

Since there was an argument about it, I wanted to include it in this thread and have your opinions on it.

Greetings qd

Hey there,

I don't know if there is anybody really interested in it but since it's kinda standard, we now have a discord channel.

¤update: We decided to make the discord channel invite only for everybody who is really interested in running the game. :) ¤/update

Be welcome to ask questions, suggest strats and all kinds of Doom 3 Speedrunning related stuff.

Greetings qd

Hey there,

after asking around a bit, I decided to try and do a load remover for the source Port RBDoom3BFG on my own. Thx to the Speedrun Tool Development Discord (Special Thx to Ekelbatzen and 0Seren) I got everything together, and here it is:

A first version of a load remover that still needs to be tested in a full run.

Currently there is no possibility to activate this load remover on Livesplit since it is not submitted yet. ¤edit¤ I've now submitted the Load Remover. It's possible to change the code at any time if changes are needed. ¤/edit¤

Setup: So here is an instruction for the setup for your own testing:

¤edit¤

• Code is freely accessible under: https://raw.githubusercontent.com/qckdth/Autosplitters/master/D3-6.txt
• the load remover can now be activated in "Edit Splits" > "Game Name: 'Doom 3'", and press the "Activate"-button below the Attempts counter. ¤/edit¤
• to see the game time, you have to add a game timer in the Layout Editor as well

Load Remover Properties:

• works for main campaign, RoE and Lost Mission
• times out level loads
• times out manual loads (Menu loads and quickloads)
• does not time out quicksaves
• does not stop in the menu
• does not time out cutscenes

One remaining question that I'd like you to share your opinion about is whether it's good to have manual loads timed out as well since they are not obligatory in the game but man made and maybe advantageous for your run. I'm not even sure if a separation of level loads and manual loads is possible, and I'm also ok with having both kinds of loads timed out.

So please feel free to test and share your experiences.

If the load remover works fine, I'd like to suggest to have Game Time as the future priority in sorting runs over Real Time.

Greetings qd

Hey there,

I've got problems with the new site. The search bar regularly does not work for me, does not show games or users that might fit my entry of letters (like "mirror" for "mirror's edge" or the "mirror's edge" series to appear). This has been a problem for me for quite some time now since the new site and layout is on. I thought, you would correct this. Since this still didn't happen, and since the search bar is about the most important instrument of this site, I'd like to emphasize this. It is frustrating.

Other than that I always liked the site. Thank you for your work!

Greetings qd

That is a really nice idea to make it a SS category only. The problem is the verification process. You would have to watch the whole run to make sure its SS.

I agree: 100% is possible but boring I guess. Nightmare Any% is a nice category, maybe even with the distinction of SS and RTA.