Okay so this isn't actually NG+ since the method of obtaining extra items in each version of Re:CoM varies like so:

Re:CoM J - Have a 2FM save file on the memory card Re:CoM NA - Beat Rebirth reverse Re:CoM 1.5 - Watch the 358/2 movie.

So the debate now is do we limit the categories so you can't obtain any of the items from the second chests in a normal speedrun and create a new category or do we just allow everything?

List of all the items with the extra stuff being in the 2nd chests:

Below is a list of all the extra stuff:

Traverse Town 1.Lion Heart 2.Saix

Wonderland

1.Synchro 2.Xemnas

Agrabah

1.Warp 2.Luxord

Olympus Colisem

1.Metal Chocobo 2.Monochrome

Monstro

1.Aqua Splash 2.Xaldin

Halloween Town

1.Bind 2.Bond of Flame

Atlantica

1.Quake 2.Demyx

Neverland

1.Thunder Raid 2.Follow the Wind

Hollow Bastion

1.Mushu 2.Xigbar

Twilight Town

1.Stardust Breeze 2.Roxas

Destiny Islands

1.Mega Elixir 2.Photon Debugger

Castle Oblivion

1.Super Glide 2.Star Skeeker

Its also worth noting that the 1.5 version has even more items but I can't find a list of which one is in which world and the loading times for that version is another story.

For 1.5, Olympus Coliseum has Total Eclipse, Neverland has Midnight Roar, and Destiny Islands has Two Become One in the Key to Rewards room.

Leaving a list of the effects of the extra cards here for reference, as how game breaking an effect is often distinguishes whether it should define a new category:

Saix - Combo Boost - Boosts power with every strike of an attack card(Linear multiplier increase, 2x at 9 hits) resets when a card is broken. Passively resists fire, ice, lightning, and sleights - 20A - 80CP

Xemnas - Quick Barrier - When receiving consecutive attacks, guards beyond the second strike. Passively resists fire, ice lighning, sleights - 3R - 65 CP

Luxord - Omni Break - Breaks Enemy card no matter what the values are. Resist FILS - 15U - 99CP

Xaldin - Aero Guard - Activates "Aero", inflicting damage to enemies that touch it. Resist FILS - 3H - 65CP

Demyx - Water Charge - "Dramatically" (Multiplier unclear) boosts the power of water type attacks. Resist RILS. - 2R - 80CP

Xigbar - Shot Charge - Powers up projectile attacks. Resists FILS - 2R - 80CP

Roxas - Double Strike - Doubles you attack card damage - 20A - 99CP

Attack cards are pretty irrelevant as a single copy and there are already more efficient was to farm good attack cards in moogle rooms so I'm leaving them out for now lol.

Regarding whether the category needs to be split as NG+ I would as an initial impression argue not to do that. None of these enemy cards can offer a significant route changing EARLY advantage by definition because the Key to Rewards doesn't show up until the second world set. The conditions to achieve "NG+" are not difficult by any standard and in fact are likely to be naturally present on any runner's save file (except for the Days movie only I'm that sadistic).

Probably most compelling to me though, is that the bonuses seem fair in comparison to the amount of effort you put into them. Demyx and Xigbar offer to replace your rhapsodies, but you're farming KtR encounters in Neverland halfway into the game over Traverse Town encounters at the very beginning. Saix and Roxas each offer a new spin on attack card buffing, but Saix rewards timing and accuracy, while berserk rewards timing and defense. Roxas offers a safer option at the cost of mare time in map cards sunk into the door, and less overall damage in its 20 attacks. Luxord is essentially "free" route wise because Warp is absolutely worth picking up but Omni Break reads as a shittier Attack Bracer in just about every possible way, this stuff wouldn't be prioritized if you could use it on magic because in CoM speedrunning your one enemy card slot needs to give you more damage in some direct or indirect way (Sleight Lock for example puts more cards in your deck while stuff like this only helps you if you're bad)

Really the point is folding it into any% is not only natural, it's incredibly low impact and creates decisions instead of removing them by allowing more concrete viable options for a run which is skewed toward having a different kind of deck but ends up going for or finding naturally an errant key to rewards. There's tension involved with grabbing stuff in the second world set because you want to have your deck cleaned up by then but the more benefits you tack onto it the more complex the decision becomes. Really the only reason I see to distinguish a NG+ effect that you can't get rid of at startup screen ("Do you want to start this game based off a previous save file etc etc") is if the effect is difficult to get, significantly changes the way the entire run is played from the early game on, or has an incredibly dominant effect at any point of the game. I don't see any of this being the case and while I think "no special chests" can be a category, I don't see why we should shut them out of what is considered "any%"

So I know we've been discussing this in a bunch of people chats recently so trying to post some points that have come up:

Ideally we name the category Any% with extra clear data rather than NG+ We shouldn't punish people for picking up the wrong chest if they enter a key to rewards for Warp etc as the other category should only be for using the extra cards not picking them up.

I agree with separating the 2 categories since you do need to do something to your save file in order to unlock the usage of certain things in the run, being only needing 1 Key to Rewards instead of 2 to get certain cards. As for a name, I like any% and any% with clear data, or something along those lines.

I would separate the categories as well.

If there are differences in the gameplay between playthroughs due to your save data unlocking something, that by definition sounds like NG+. You couldn't get those items before, but now because of the save data, you can. It doesn't really matter how minuscule the difference is, it does affect the gameplay in some way and has the potential to change up your playthrough.

Absolutely we should separate the categories.

I will admit I am not entirely aware of the bonuses you obtain from the bonus clear data, I know you get both chests in the first KtR of each floor, but I have also heard people say there are other things as well? I would actually like more information on that.

However, I think it is completely obvious we should separate the categories. There is something that you can do outside of the game which affects the gameplay or at least the options the player has. In response to BB's post, I don't really like the idea of molding this to fit the NG+ definition. I do use the word molding very much on purpose because I don't feel like this is technically NG+. NG+ to me means that you have a previous save file of the game you are playing which grants you bonuses in a new playthrough. The matter at hand is actually affecting the game via other means; not through previous save files of Re:CoM. I think NG+ might be slightly misleading, however I can see the point where we are arguing semantics at this point. The naming scheme that has been proposed that I personally find fitting is that playing the game without utilizing these additional bonuses would remain "Any%"; and using the additional bonuses would be defined as "Any% w/ Clear Bonus", as the game states in english "Clear Bonus" when you open the additional KtR chests.

There is also a point that is brought up when a runner is attempting an "Any%" run (given the definitions of the categories I stated above), and the runner opens one of the Clear Bonus chests on accident, but doesn't use the bonus at any point in the run. I would say that this would still be an "Any%" run. Now I know that this is probably something most people agree upon, but I thought I would throw it out there as well. I don't think runners who want to run "Any%" should have to go out of their way to not have the clear bonuses on their data; IE removing ps2 memory cards, deleting ps3 save profile settings, etc.

Also I would just like to note briefly on GhostWheel's post and I have already expressed these points directly to him in his stream but I wanted to write it down so people could see it. I don't like the notion that these changes should be folded into the current Any% definition simply because they don't "offer a significant route changing EARLY advantage". It should not matter if the change is significant or not. Defining what is significant or insignificant is an entirely new can of worms that should never be opened. If it is different, it is simply that, different. And should have a different category. And same goes for the argument about the relative usefulness of the reward based on the effort used to obtain it. Again, if it's different, its different. I realize that the effort that goes into obtaining the Clear Data for each version of the game is pretty easy to do, and yes most runners of the game will likely already have them on their memory cards, profiles, etc. But the fact still remains, it is an added bonus to the game that is not there initially. I do not think that any point brought up in GhostWheel's post in regards to folding this into our definition of Any% is logical.

Also I realize I said I would note briefly on his post and then I wrote a novel. My Bad.

One more thing that I would like to note on that has been somewhat frustrating to me is an idea that has been floating around. I have encountered a few people, I wont name names, who seem to want to add these changes to Any% because they don't want to make it a category that isn't called "Any%". The idea being that anything that isn't called "Any%" is immediately less intriguing. This baffles me. I have never seen runners who didn't want to run something because it wasn't called "Any%". I have never seen viewers not interested in a run because they found out it wasn't called "Any%". I have seen a few who seem to think this, and I have also encountered someone who just flat out said that exactly. Just because something is not "Any%" doesn't mean it is swept under the rug.

@Muffin As far as I'm aware the only other bonus is the Ultima weapon Keyblade from a calm bounty in Castle Oblivion after beating both Riku and Sora's story. However I'm not even sure if that keyblade is in Re:CoM due to how awful calm bounty mechanics are in Castle Oblivion.

Finally while most of us are agreeing we should separate the categories Rebel managed to get Xigbar without the extra clear data. If enough people can reproduce this then the whole argument we are having here is moot (Unless we really want to restrict the ultima weapon if it exists).

@Muffin @Drazerk IIRC beating R/R gets you Ultima Weapon, Diamond Dust, One-Winged Angel, Ansem, Lexaeus and Zexion, all from chests in DI, TT and CO. I know they exist because I have them on one of my files, however I can't see them being of much, if any use. Still though, it would count as a legit NG+ bonus. My only issue with it is that if the KH2 stuff is obtainable on NG like Rebel supposedly did, separating would just essentially result in a category nobody would run.

Edit: The requirements for these are uncertain BTW. I'm assuming the enemy cards are beat Riku as they're Riku exclusive fights. As for Ultima, Draz did you have clears from both characters on your card? I've heard some places that it requires BOTH stories. As for the other two keyblades, I've heard various: Riku, Sora, even just beating Marluxia 1. The point still stands though, they're probably useless.

I've since confirmed that ultima weapon does exist in Re:CoM and Diamond Dust is just beat Marluxia 1 which is sad because it would be useful for Axel II.

Fairly sure Ansem / Lexaeus is beat Riku's story. No idea about Zexion / One Winged Angel however I think One Winged follows the same rules as Diamond Dust which is beat Marluxia 1.

Muffin's post basically summarizes all my thoughts on the matter, so chiming in as a +1 for separate categories.

As far as what happened with Rebel, as I understand it, what happened is that he had a memory card with only a completed Sora's Story save file on it and was able to open the "clear bonus" chests. That might mean our understanding of the requirements needed to open these chests is slightly different (no 2FM/RR save data needed, only Sora's Story), but definitely still makes them two separate categories.

I don't know enough about the requirements, but I hope someone does or can clear up the weirdness.

I know for 100% certainty that Re:CoM-J requires 2FM clear bonus and 1.5 Re:CoM requires the Days Movie, I have no clue about Re:CoM-NA.

But yeah Muffin summed it up pretty well. I don't really care what the category should be named, the important thing is that they should be separated. I also agree that you can play on a file w/ Clear Bonus, not get the Clear Bonuses, and it would still count as an any% run. You can't get the Clear Bonuses randomly, you have to intentionally open the chest and put it in your deck to use it, so as long as you don't do that you should be fine.

Bloody, just to clarify: Muffin was referring to the question around whether to still allow runs that unintentionally OPEN the Clear Bonus chests, but don't use the cards from within. I think we all sound in agreement of allowing a run in such manner to still be considered "Any%" and not be forced into "Any% w/Clear Bonus" until the player equips the rewarded card(s).

As someone who has been testing this stuff for the past week. Let me assure you - It is very easy to accidentally open the wrong chest.

"...you have to intentionally open the chest AND put it in your deck to use it"

We're on the same page here guys.

I think for the most part we are all for it and we've settled on a name most of us are happy with as well. I think we're just waiting for the PS3/PS2 split and for someone to actually run this category at this point.

Most of the rules seem to be fleshed out as well so I don't see any immediate issues we could have (Unless someone finds Floor glitch in Re:CoM).