Archiving runs is pretty simple, just make a category and put the levels under subcategories. I don't believe because physics are changed means we should remove all of these runs from this board.
If the physics have indeed changed, or at least some of the shots are impossible (lets pretend for instance, the awesome Ancient 17 hill jump [which can save upwards of 20 seconds]), then the top run may never be achievable, and thus unfair to place on the same leaderboard as some of the other runs. However, if one goes, then they all deserve to be moved around.
Note: this probably matters more in the ILs than the whole-game runs.
The reason I think physics changing is a big deal is because we have no way to go a version back or pick the version (if I'm not mistaken). We should maybe add what version we are using when submitting runs so that we can maybe keep more track of this kind a thing. I agree with Roushmore if the time save is no longer possible it kind of makes it a little unfair. I still like archiving all the old runs instead of just removing. Maybe a category that doesnt accept entries or whatever (not to familiar with that side). Do you know when a vote and decision will be made?
That's up to the mods really... It looks as if most of them have been online this week, but most of them aren't that involved with the game anymore... we may have to talk with em directly
I'm sure you can revert back to previous versions, all steam games allow this. Also the mods have not been involved with this game in over 2 years besides lance and he stated how much he dislikes speedrunning the game now because how crucial physics were changed.
I think we should just make another category without space and have people enter the version there on if possible. Cause realistically people can just use the fastest version for the individual level runs (which should be fine) and need to run the new versions for the the new main categories that include space. That seems the most fair.
We could also maybe add more moderators to help if too many are inactive. I'm not sure how this works as I'm fairly new to speedrunning logistics but have been watching for a while.
We definetly need a vote and then some action.
I don't believe it is simple to revert back to old versions of GWYF, (please feel free to prove me wrong) but if we could choose any version of the game that has been released then we could just keep all IL's the same, but i don't believe we can do that, so then i am in favor of archiving/deleting IL's. Also again can we get some input on the 3 potential options for full runs?
Does anyone know when and what updates the physics where changed? I'm currently looking into how easy it is to change the version and even if it's possible with Golf with your friends
I tried to switch to an older version to do some runs when online was down for me (which was about 6 weeks), and I couldn't figure it out. But by all means... most of the changes happened right when Team I7 took over in the partnership. The easiest telltale is the Haunted 18 change, tbh.
We do need some kind of decision, no matter what it is, though. I know of at least 4 people that are working out grinding out runs without any kind of future being announced, and the interest will likely wane if something isn't decided soon.
Archive the ILs by renaming current categories (Forest, etc. Pre whatever version) and making new categories adding the post physics patch update runs, deleting them would be deleting history, regardless of physics changes.
One thing i would like to reiterate is we don't have to archive the runs on speedrun, that way it will be less cluttered, honestly i don't mind but it is a decision we could vote on.
I don't like that the original times were ever removed in the first place. 6 maps were promised originally and is the base game. I don't have a full game time now but I wouldn't want old times removed.
Well i now am a moderator at the current moment, not sure if it will be revoked so my decision here may be undone, but i think from this forum it seems that people want to have a say, so lets put the decision for full runs as a vote right now and we can sort out ILs later. https://strawpoll.com/3wkh263d Not sure what arbitrary time to set for voting, but i want to make sure other mods at least don't complain about the decision made.
Congrats on the mod, ureadmyname! I voted in the poll, but honestly, whatever works. Getting these runs submitted gives me something to run again, ya know?
It's ideal in the long run for old runs to be archived as subcategories rather than deleted. I wasn't around for the early days of this game, but maybe adding full game categories as misc for forest-twilight + ones for each additional map added since that time could be a silver lining for all the old deleted runs + serve as intro categories for anyone out there trying to learn the newest version of full game run(s) or just want to run part of it. This would help in the future as well for when more maps get added, avoiding situations like this one every 1 or 2 years. As for the physics changes, I assume you're all referencing classic? I play more Custom and Random, and from my recent experiences so far, the changes have either remained roughly the same, or improved the strats from before. (Anyone with more experience than me can prove me wrong, just mentioning my perspective so far)
Well the physics definitely still affect custom and random for sure, even if the strats are better now than they used to be, i don't believe they should be classified together as the same run, because they aren't the same run. So if the old full runs are archived as "No Space" then they would still have to be separated from people running "No Space, new physics" (if we make that category) because again it isn't the same run due to strats being different. Definitely want peoples input on this, but to me it makes no sense if we makes "No Space" and people run it today with the new physics, then they will have a disadvantage/advantage due to differing strats, it is not the same run, it is not the same physics, so they shouldn't be counted together, imho.
Idk of all of the physics changes, but from what everyone has been describing, ureadmyname's last post makes sense to me. I still stand by my suggestion to have previous full game categories as misc. ones (forest - twilight, forest - haunted etc.) Perhaps these could start fresh under the new physics (everyone can have an equal playing field without having to dig back to an older version), then the remaining old physics runs could be archived into a subcategory in their respective spots; (Possibly for IL's too, since I saw those were mentioned as well). Side note: since the random category hasn't split into different goal types (yet?), my few random dunk runs that I have act as "old physics" ones I guess lol
Honestly i don't mind the idea of having (forest-twilight, forest-haunted etc.) but that would clutter the boards way too much, especially with physic changes added. Also this game is still in early access and we don't know what changes will happen in the future. I hate that in the past we removed full runs, but for now i believe we can't add too many more categories/sub-categories especially if "No Space" is voted in, the only other idea is contact speedrun.com and get a category extension for this game, but for how 'small' this community is, and for such an arbitrary thing, i don't see that as being rational.
Going back to the first page where I introduced the idea, which I had originally mentioned a couple times across a year a while back, just hide the "+X map" categories against the main subcategory of "Full Game", it wouldn't clutter the board imo. Being a content mod now I can assure that this game wouldn't properly qualify for a Category Extensions board sadly.
