From what I understood, classic% was simply an umbrella term to include taxi and density. It never was intended (NOTE: from all I've seen) to simulate other game play restrictions from older games or anything to do with "being classic". Just a simple term instead of having to include "no taxi% nodensity%" Never anything that directly affected the route. And I think that is the biggest problem people have at the moment. Category can exist all I care, maybe the difference between 4/5 should be noted a bit better? Adding Ending C to the name would clarify this issue a lot.
Anyway, can we PLEASE keep the excessive capslock outside of this tread from now on? I understand that there is a point disguised in sarcasm most of the time but enough is enough. THANK YOU! :)
[quote]so is "classic% ending C" good or not?[/quote]
I don't think "classic% ending C" should be used, I think we can all agree that "classic%" is a bad name and that mimicking old GTA feature is stupid. Classic% is technically "Good ending (or Ending C), no missions fail skip, no taxi warp" which isn't any%. But category names should be shorten and even though I don't like "classic%" it's the name under which the category is known and there's no point changing it.
Should we get rid of Ending C, I don't think so, I'm a pseudo Vice City runner so I'll talk about what I know. The All Missions in Vice City tried to mimic an older GTA (GTA3) and in my opinion did it poorly. should the "all missions that change the savefile name" rules be changed to "all missions with a mission passed screen" ? Of course not this would invalidated all current runs and make it another category, can someone run All Missions with "all missions with a mission passed screen" rule ? yes he can, nothing is stopping him except the lack of interest and competition. there are 28 Classic% runs on speedrun.com and it's the most ran GTA V category, it should remain as it is. Feel free to run "Any% no missions fail skip, no taxi warp" for GTA V but i don't think there will much competition in this category because it's just a "Any% NMS" run were the runner didn't use taxis.
If classic% is the same as any% classic rules, then why does GTA IV have this category twice on the leaderboards?
uuh, this colloquialism is getting harder and harder to understand, just say what the restrictions are in the name.
Classic% begs the question of "what the hell is classic%" and "what are the restrictions" and is clearly confusing.
"Ending C no mission skip/taxis" clears that all up. nobody is saying you cannot run this or that category, all that is being asked is that you call it what it is so that there is no confusion
Naegleria, you're literally making me want to pull my hair out when I read these asinine comments and suggestions from you. The name is "Classic%" and it will forever be "Classic%". Any time you've ever seen someone title something "Any% (classic rules)", it's because they're poking fun at this exact type of crap going on in this thread. Tell me Naegleria, have you streamed nearly 2000 hours of a speedrun titled "Classic%"? Have you streamed nearly 2000 hours with a title including either "Classic%" or "(classic rules)"? No? Hmmmmmmmmmmmm? Well, I have, and I can come here with the "fucking wisdom" to back what I have to say.
After all these hours of streaming, I've seen "What is Classic%?" or "What is (classic rules)?" asked in chat probably around 300 times. Most times, I answered, vocally, stating the exactly what you'll see listed under Classic% on the GTA IV leaderboards. Eventually, I made a command which people caught on to and viewers would execute this command the moment they saw someone ask. Sometimes I, vocally, told the person asking the question that they could enter this command and get their answer, and they did. Guess how many times the person asking "What is "Classic%"?" became confused and felt the need to ask more or question the name? NEVER. LITERALLY, ZERO TIMES DID THIS HAPPEN. This is the honest to god truth and if you refuse to believe it, I'd understand, coming from you.
You might be wanting to say, "Well, don't you realize that if you had titled these 2000 hours of streaming "GTA IV speedrunning with these restrictions: Autosave disabled,Traffic density set to 33, No fast travel via taxi service, No video editor warp", you probably could have avoided most of the questions?" and my response to this would be, "Naegleria, you're a special kind of stupid, aren't you?"
The category was never about keeping the run in line with previous GTAs. If this had been the case, the use of vehicles brand new to the GTA series with GTA IV (Ex. Futo), would have been disallowed. This point has been beat to death many times over by now. Still, the word "classic" has other meaning. If you search for the definition of "classic", you'll find the definition of "classic" as an adjective which is: judged over a period of time to be of the highest quality and outstanding of its kind. or, one of the definitions of the noun, "classic": a major sports tournament or competition, as in golf or tennis ( or fuckin' speedrunning OpieOP )
Now, if you take a moment and actually use your brain, you'll be able to understand why the name "Classic%" actually makes sense. The category wouldn't exist if it wasn't for the type of person who has a somewhat rebellious attitude towards speedrunning. This person saw what Any% offered and came to the conclusion that they could come up with a "higher quality" speedrun, something which, at least to them, would be the better category to run. Once they created "Classic%", they took a step back and compared the two and felt that Classic% was the better category. At this point, there's only one person running this new category, shouldn't they be the one to name it whatever they want? Of course they should. They named it "Classic%" and from this point forward, the category sat waiting for others to run it. In time, others came along and judged the two categories, some chose Any%, others chose Classic%. But, wait......WHAT'S THIS??!?!?!?!? MORE PEOPLE CHOSE CLASSIC% WHEN IT ACTUALLY CAME TO SITTING THEIR ASS DOWN AND SPEEDRUNNING THE GAME?!?!?!
But see, the point is, the numbers don't actually matter. I couldn't care less if more people have ran Classic% as opposed to Any%. As it stands, the Classic% leaderboard for IV should have a total of 8 times (Kyle, Itsab, Dispersor, Greko, Jolzi, Slurry, Etholon, and Ryedawg) while the Any% LB, as far as I know, is complete with four times (Kyle, Nord, Ilias, schA_de). With GTA V, just compare, here: http://www.speedrun.com/gtav#Classic.
As I've said, the numbers don't matter because we come back to the point I made two paragraphs ago, which is -> the name actually does make sense, regardless of the numbers. Let's say I'm someone who despises "Classic%". I clearly wouldn't ever feel the category could be considered "classic". Yet, there are a group of people who do feel it's the category "of highest quality" and/or "outstanding of its kind". The rules exist not because of some nonsense regarding past GTA games, but because the person who put them in place felt they were creating a category which would be more enjoyable to speedrun. It's an offshoot category which gained a following. You don't have to agree that the category is "classic", but they do. Majority or minority, it doesn't matter. In a way, it's kind of like a cult classic. The name will remain, over the years, we'll see how the numbers change, but no matter how they change, the category will still exist and will likely always have existed. If there's to ever be a speedrunning history book, Classic% will at least go down as the offshoot category which ended up being more popular than Any% (series specific of course), at least for the first few years of it's existence. As other's have said, "...it's the name under which the category is known and there's no point changing it.", and now, with this post, I hope slowed this nonsense train down.
The name will forever be known as "Classic%", I guarantee it. You're welcome to title your streams or videos "GTA (ROMAN NUMERAL) SPEEDRUNNING UNDER THIS RESTRICTION AND THAT RESTRICTION AND THESE RESTRICTIONS AND THOSE RESTRICTIONS", but the category always be officially known as "Classic%". The rules of Classic% will differ between games because the games change and the rules have to be tweaked when the runners of the category feel they need to be. For instance, with the PC release of V, you can now video editor warp, just as you could do in IV. The runner's of V have already disallowed this in Classic% not because it wasn't available in previous GTAs, because....well, it was in a previous GTA game, GTA IV, but because they feel it makes the category better. I've heard them discuss this and never once did I hear:
"Hey guys, should we disallow video editor warps, it wasn't in any of the previous GTA releas.....oh wait yes it was and oh wait, so was the use of taxi warping at any time, and oh wait, so was autosave, oh shit, I guess Classic% is dead because GTA IV had all of these things, hmmmm, what should we add to help our classic%, oh I guess it'd be nice to disallow special abilities because they weren't in any of the previous GTA games, ok good guys, we've done a good job guys."
No, I didn't ever hear such a thing because this would be ridiculous. I was once brand new to GTA speedrunning. How is it that I instantly recognized why Classic% existed? How did I manage to read the rules and/or hear an brief explanation of the category and not become confused? I pity you, Naegleria, if you're serious about being confused. How did I manage to use common sense and come away making sense of the category. I've been in the driver's seat of around 2000 hours worth of potential questions and confusion and I have virtually never seen an ounce of confusion from viewers after they saw or heard that brief explanation that I once saw/heard for the first time. It's hilarious that the potentially legitimate confusion only has ever appeared on the GTA SPEEDRUNNING FORUMS. How did you manage to make it this far and still find yourself confused? Do you see where I'm going with this? I don't believe you when you say you're confused. All I see when I read your posts is a fool who has a completely worthless opinion when it comes to these issues. You've shown you lack intuition. So, please, carry on with your shit, because it's futile.
And this is the part where people shut down because of long posts.
Apparently people love the category because it's an enjoyable category and it's called Classic% because... uh....
Anyways. It's pointless to bash a category over it's name and try to compare it to it's rules. If that was the case then all the runs from All Missions and 100% would be on the any% leaderboard.
And by the way it should be called any% (classic rules) since 'Classic' isn't a percentage. :P
[quote=SlayerOfBabies] but the entire reason you separate it as its own category is so you can say you have a record in "x" category, no? [/quote]
[quote=SlayerOfBabies] the fact that you're making leaderboards for a far easier category just screams "i really need to feel relevant"
no? [/quote]
I don't think I've ever read a more ignorant post in my entire life. Congratulations dude, you win.
Just to further showcase your level of ignorance, I'd like to bring up a few examples.
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Look at the top of this page (page 3) of this thread. See my post regarding track and field? Sprinting and Middle-distance running? So, I'm assuming you find the 110 meter hurdle WR less impressive than the 100 meter dash WR? Is the 1600 meter WR less impressive than the 100 meter dash? According to you, it has to be, and it's not something left up to opinion because, according to you, the faster event will ALWAYS be more impressive.
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If right now, you were tasked at either getting WR in GTA IV under Classic% or Any%, you'd likely first check the WR time in Any% and then move on and find out the WR time for Classic%. You'd find that these times are respectively 5:11:05 and 5:37:12. I'd assume you'd know as fact that it'd be easier to get the Classic% world record because, after all, it's slower and therefore must be less of a challenge, less difficult. You would know this as fact, right? I mean, this is how you think....or am I misunderstanding what you've said in your post?
News flash, buddy. As of today, the Classic% WR is much more impressive and much more difficult to obtain. The level of skill required to get the Classic% WR is much greater than that needed to get the Any% WR. I would know.
Oh, and by the way, the above reply, from Guy, to your post, has a bit of a back story. In case you fail to understand the point of that reply, I'll explain. The Any% WR in IV sat at 5:50:55. I further optimized Classic% until I eventually got a time under the Classic% rules which beat the Any% WR. At the time, this was a 5h 49m 57s. It then became a 5h 49m 40s and then 5h 37m 12s. At the time of the submission, I had achieved WR in Any% while doing Classic%. This automatically makes the Classic% WR more impressive. Though, I eventually did an Any% run and got a 5:11:05, the current Any% WR. A faster yet less impressive time when you consider the limitations of Classic%. With GTA V, Classic% will likely never be faster than Any%, but still, the current Classic% WR is much more impressive when compared to the Any% WR, which is the only time on that leaderboard. It's all about the level of competition and how optimized the run is, under any and all limitations.
Please, dude, use some common sense before you post next time. Your ignorance levels are blinding.
Shit. I'm late to this thread. Sorry, I was making a food run on the way here... I probably should've asked you guys if you wanted anything, but I was afraid to, because of all the shouting I could hear from across town.
Anyway.
Has this thread now devolved from "Forcing Ending C is pointless" into "What should the 'official' title of this category be?"
Honestly, if we're going to change "Classic%" to "Ending C, No Mission Skips/Taxis" ... well, that's a mouthful, isn't it?
The argument to change it from "Classic%" to "Ending C blablabla" is... it's easier to understand? Well, at the same time, what the hell is "Any%?" Any% is "beat the game, no cheating." Right? Well, why not just call it "Beat the Game" so that way people new to speedrunning don't come into streams going "WTF is any%?"
Actually what is the term "speedrunning" anyway? Why not just call it "beating games as fast as possible" to get rid of all the "what is speedrunning" questions
Anyway my point is... there's gonna be jargon when it comes to speedrunning. We all know that. Jargon can take its form as shorthand. "Any%" is shorter than "Beat the Game" just like "Classic%" is shorter than "Ending C, No Mission Skips/Taxis"
People that aren't in the know will become in the know. This is Kyle's argument that I'm basically taking, but yeah. It's like when people say BYOB instead of Bring Your Own Bottle, or RSVP instead of Répondez s'il vous plaît. When someone inevitably asks, "what's that mean?" they get an easy to understand answer. Just like when someone asks "What's classic%?" they'll get "Ending C, no mission skips or taxis."
ezpz.
Edit: The change I'd argue in favor for is removing the percentage tag from Classic. "Classic Rules" or even just "Classic" works fine. Same thing with Trevor%. That name kills me. It should be "Unlock Trevor" or "Beat Jewel Heist" or something.
It's fine, but it's not effective. "Classic" is a term that defines a set of rules. "Classic, Ending C" is a term that defines a set of rules, with one of the rules in the term itself. Why? That's redundant. Unless there's "Classic, Ending A" or "Classic, Ending B" there's no reason to make the distinction.
Here's a better solution, I feel: all runs are "Classic" and during submission to the leaderboard, the player is required to submit what ending they chose, which is then displayed publicly in the run's entry. This is similar to how on the Crash Team Racing leaderboards, players are required to submit what character they used. So instead of "Any% Coco" and "Any% N. Cortex" we just have "Any%" and curious parties can see what character the top runners use.
Disclaimer: I don't run this game. The authority is in the hands of the leaderboard mods, and the opinions of the runners of this game should bear weight over mine.
I am totally fine with Classic% (ending C) as misc. category and Classic% as main, where you can choose any ending + no special ability use. Offcourse more peopel will run misc. category with ending C but still, i will run what i enjoy most no matter where the category will stand.
Classic% will change with eatch new gta, you never know what rockstar will implement in next gta. GTAs are different and its impossible to add every classic% rules from odler GTAs. So add just more important ones like taxi, special ability use in GTA V case, ofcourse no mission skips, i guess 1st person could be banned too but it doesnt make the game easier so that could be optional, because you can accidently switch to 1st person mid run and then it would be invalid.
Sorry if stupid post that didnt make any sense, tried my best.
Yeah.... people were right, this doggy needs to die. Unless new people come over this thread and/or get fresh opinions/arguments, this is just going in circles. It was fun while it lasted.
[quote=KZFREW]what the hell is "Any%?" Any% is "beat the game, no cheating." Right? Well, why not just call it "Beat the Game" so that way people new to speedrunning don't come into streams going "WTF is any%?"[/quote] What is Any%? It's beating any percentage of the game that allows you to complete the game as fast as possible. This is concise, coherent, and makes sense. What is Classic%? Is there something "classic" in the game that's being completed? No, it's actually just Any% (No Mission Skips, No Taxis, Ending C, No Special Abilities, 33% Density, No Autosaves, No DLC, Only Old GTA Cars, No Uneeded Character Swapping, No First Person). Jargon is fine, but it should also be coherent. If I'm familiar with typical speedrunning terms and I see someone running GTAV Classic% I'm going to start wondering what the fuck that is. Though if they were running GTAV Any% (Classic Ruleset) I would obviously understand that they're running Any% with a few limitations. Obviously I wouldn't know what these limitations were, but the idea is actually coherent and someone can actually understand what the category is far better than Classic%. This trend of adding a % sign to the end of a category name when it doesn't really need one is awful. Trevor% (Classic Ruleset) could mean Any% (Trevor), except in this case it's actually The Jewel Store Job RTA (Classic Ruleset), but how is someone supposed to know this? Sure they can ask or look at the rules for the leaderboard, but if the category was named better they wouldn't have to. Obviously this isn't a main category, but that's no excuse for naming your categories poorly. Yes there is always going to be people that question things even if they make perfect sense, that's not the point, the point is to have clear, coherent category names and Classic% is neither of those.
This thread in a nutshell.
You guys should just be friends and stop taking Classic% so seriously, it's supposed to be a fun category and what's fun in arguing about it? Just run the game however you like why would you run a "fun" category seriously anyway? Just do what you want.
