Hello Unhallowed submitted this run:

This is Cheeselover's run done 6 months ago:

You will notice that there is a difference in time due to one being done after a death and the other being done directly from the replay menu. This problem has arisen due to the individual level timings being somewhat undefined. For levels with in-game time shown at the end (maybe 1/3rd) this isn't an issue as the time is unambiguously shown. For the rest, the rules are largely non-existent. It was essentially the previous runner that defined where the timing should take place.

I propose a few possibilities (feel free to suggest more):

1. Timing on the non-ingame time missions should be done after a mission fail. You start the run, fail the mission, and timing starts after loading back in (Unhallow's method).
2. I will go through and type individual timing rules for each mission (this will take awhile). I will decide what is best for each. I will do this somewhat regardless of what is chosen.
3. All runs must start from the replay menu itself. If you fail, you must leave the mission and choose replay again. This will be annoying for retries but it will be the least ambiguous (Cheese's method and the unwritten method).

What do you think?

1

I'd say use #1, in a speedrunning sense, you get a faster time. Also if you're grinding for a good time then you can just fail and restart as opposed to loading the mission from the menu which would undoubtedly get very obnoxious very fast.

Is there anything that can be manipulated or skipped if you start from a death? I think it was the first cutscene but I'm not sure. If you can skip something then I'd choose 3.

I'd prefer #1 as it allows for quicker retries. I'm not totally sure if anything can be manipulated from a failed mission start because I haven't run every individual level yet but 100% runs really only need to be done from the main menu because you can't complete accuracy objectives etc if you fail due to checkpoints.

EDIT: I just noticed the run was rejected. If you do decide on #1 will I need to resubmit? A lot of my recent submitted runs have starts from mission fails also.

@Unhallowed I will leave the others unverified until this is resolved. I am pretty sure I can verify that one even after it was rejected. If not, I will message you. Don't resubmit it until then.

Alright. Thanks.

#3. As I have submitted to almost every single IL in the entire game, I know that A LOT of IL's have different times possible for if you respawn instead of restart. As shown in this example Matt supplies above, there is about 2 seconds worth of cutscene that is unskippable (as it would be if you were playing it for the first time in the actual story mode!). Almost all IL's are like this. For other IL's, repawning after a death warps you up to, in certain missions, more than 10 seconds of driving away from the original start location. Although restarting from the replay menu is tedious if going for a very good time, it is the only true way to get what the "IL" speedrun time could be for comparable timing to the full game, which is what IL's are meant to be for after all. Rules should not be set for what is "easier," they should be set for what is right, as explained above. Thus, the third option, where you start timing after the loading screen has gone (as in Classic% and all other categories of full game speedruns) is the only feasable option in my opinion.

Also, Emerald/Unhollowed's reasoning for thinking #1 is the best option is basically its "easier." As said above, this should in no way determine what the rules for timing an IL should be.

I'm happy to do it from the main menu if that's what DarkViper decides. I guess this just stemmed from there not being clear rules from the get go.

#3 with option 1 you'd be missing out on some of the mission only because its "easier" to run like that. The only reason restarting in prologue for classic% is allowed for example is because it has the same timing, if it would warp you, you'd have to restart everytime aswell.

I chose option #1 purely for the chance to retry over and over but I do agree option #3 would be the better blanket rule and like Viper said less ambiguous so I'm good either way.

#3 sounds the best imo

3

Start runs from menu, load them and start timer either from first input or immidatelly after loading. Thats how i think it should be. So i guess 3

After reading CheeseLover's post, I can now make an educated decision. 3.

[quote=CheeseLover]Also, Emerald/Unhollowed's reasoning for thinking #1 is the best option is basically its "easier." As said above, this should in no way determine what the rules for timing an IL should be.[/quote]

Option 3 is a clear winner. I will update the rules to reflect this.

Just for the record I have removed all of my approved/pending runs that didn't start from the main menu.

Now that the rules have been solidified, I should mention that a few runs already submitted (albeit months ago before anything concrete) have been started while active in game and not from the replay menu. Namely the runs on Crystal Maze where the runners have a Jet waiting for them outside the mission start so they can use it once the mission commences.

Now that we have a set standard I feel like these should be removed because as far as I know there's no way for this to occur from the replay menu and therefore is an unfair advantage.

What do you guys think?

There are runs on the leaderboards done from inside the game? Not from the replay menu..at all? Fuck me. Yes they should be removed.