EDITED MAY 4th, a complete reversal of how I feel ILs should be done/timed:
If I were compiling a list of rules+, this is what it'd look like:
- All missions should be manually timed (RTA).
- If a mission has a results screen, it will be timed (RTA) from the first frame following a loading screen (this first frame may be the start to a cutscene) up to the first frame of the results screen.
- If a mission doesn't end with a results screen, e.g., "Prologue", "Franklin and Lamar", then the runners of the game should decide how these missions should be timed. Timing info should be placed under the rules section for these ILs.
- If the player enters a cheat code DURING a mission, the attempt cannot be accepted. The results screen, if there is one, will show "Cheated" at the top if this did occur.
- Anything can be used in preparation for the mission (a waiting taxi, pre-placed map marker, weapons, cars, aircraft, etc.)
¤I encourage the runners to check what starts off these missions when you start them up through the replay feature. Base the start of the timing off of the first frame of whatever you see after a loading screen. For instance, with "Prologue", I think timing should begin on the first frame of that black screen with white text and end on the first frame of the cutscene following loss of control with Trevor after running away from the police.
(Mission name: whether or not the results screen has an overall mission time stat) 75 missions, 45 with, 30 without
Masks: Face Time - Purchase all masks within 20 seconds Boiler Suits: Quick Shopper - Purchase all outfits within 30 seconds Tow Truck: Time - Complete within 3:00 The Ballad of Rocco: Time - Complete within 03:00 Hang Ten: Time - Complete within 04:00 Trevor Philips Industries: Time - Complete within 4:30 Sidetracked: Time - Complete within 04:30 Complications: Finish the mission in 5 minutes Trash Truck: Time - Complete within 5:00 Driller: Time - Complete within 05:00 Marriage Counseling: Time - Complete within 05:30 Cargobob: Time - Complete within 05:30 Legal Trouble: Time - Complete within 05:30 Repossession: Time - Complete within 06:30 Meltdown: Time - Complete within 6:30 Hood Safari: Time - Complete within 07:00 The Wrap Up: Time - Complete within 07:00 Three's Company: Time - Complete within 07:30 Casing the Jewel Store: Time - Complete within 08:00 Friend Request: Time - Complete within 08:30 Minisub: Time - Complete within 08:30 Predator: Time - Complete within 9:00 Cleaning out the Bureau: Time - Complete within 09:00 Dead Man Walking: Time - Complete within 09:30 Caida Libre: Mission Time - Complete the mission in 9:45 Mr. Richards: Mission Time - Complete within 10:00 The Long Stretch: Time - Complete within 10:30 Reuniting the Family: Time - Complete within 10:30 Surveying the Score: Time - Complete within 11:00 Bury the Hatchet: Time - Complete within 11:00 Derailed: Time - Complete within 11:30 Mr. Philips: Time - Complete within 12:00 I Fought the Law...: Time - Complete within 12:00 Pack Man: Time - Complete within 12:00 Nervous Ron: Time - Complete within 12:30 Monkey Business: Time - Complete within 13:30 Lamar Down: Time - Complete within 13:30 The Merryweather Heist: ---Offshore: Time - Complete within 14:30 Did Somebody Say Yoga?: Mission Time - Complete within 15:00 The Paleto Score: Time - Complete within 16:00 The Big Score: ---Obvious: Time - Complete within 16:00 The Bureau Raid: ---Covert: Time - Complete within 18:00 ---Roof: Time - Complete within 19:00 Scouting the Port: Time - Complete within 20:00 Endings: (C) The Third Way: Time - Complete within 21:30
Prologue: NA Franklin and Lamar: NA Chop: NA Father/Son: NA Daddy's Little Girl: NA Carbine Rifles: NA Bugstars Equipment: NA BZ Gas Grenades: NA The Jewel Store Job: ---Loud: NA ---Smart: NA Friends Reunited: NA Crystal Maze: NA Fame or Shame: NA By the Book: NA Eye in the Sky: NA Deep Inside: NA The Merryweather Heist: ---Freight: NA Blitz Play: NA Minor Turbulence: NA Paleto Score Setup: NA Military Hardware: NA Planning the Big Score: NA Stingers: NA Gauntlet: NA Fire Truck: NA Architect's Plans: NA Fresh Meat: NA The Big Score: ---Subtle: NA Endings: (A) Something Sensible: NA (B) The Time's Come: NA
When you use the replay function, you can skip certain "in-mission" cutscenes, which are unskippable at first play. Should we allow this for IL's or no? Example, Prologue you can cut the dialogue where Michael says: "You forget a thousand things every day..."
Yes it should be allowed. In prologue you can skip most of custscenes, including the long one at the end .
Just for the record, I agree, otherwise the mission replay function would be completely useless and we'd have to make quick saves everywhere to grind all IL's.
The one thing that can be sub-optimal when using the replay mission functionality is that you can't properly set-up the optimal conditions beforehand (i.e. get a chopper or specific vehicle), as the mission will start right after.
Also, the current IL rankings specify Classic% as header. So I'm assuming for the moment taxi's are not allowed?
Should be allowed, Classic% is the only category where taxis are banne,md offcourse Trevor% too.
Rules are such a pain to invent and agree.
An Any% category was added to the IL leaderboard.
Any% IL rules: Anything can be used in preparation for the mission (a waiting taxi, pre-placed map marker, weapons, cars, aircraft, etc.).
Mission skips are allowed.
Cheat codes cannot be entered DURING a mission, but can be used in preparation for the mission as long as what's gained with the cheat code could have been obtained in game in some other way. (Example: Spawning a Comet.)
All missions are manually timed (RTA). If a mission has a results screen, it will be timed from the first frame following a loading screen (this first frame may be the start to a cutscene) up to the first frame of the results screen. If a mission doesn't end with a results screen, e.g., "Prologue", then the runners of the game should decide how these missions should be timed. Timing info should be placed under the rules section for these ILs.
Classic%% IL rules: Use of taxis and mission skips are disallowed during Classic% IL attempts. Everything else is allowed.
Cheat codes cannot be entered DURING a mission, but can be used in preparation for the mission as long as what's gained with the cheat code could have been obtained in game in some other way. (Example: Spawning a Comet.)
All missions are manually timed (RTA). If a mission has a results screen, it will be timed from the first frame following a loading screen (this first frame may be the start to a cutscene) up to the first frame of the results screen. If a mission doesn't end with a results screen, e.g., "Prologue", then the runners of the game should decide how these missions should be timed. Timing info should be placed under the rules section for these ILs.
Can I request an any% no MS category for 1Ls? (taxis allowed, but no mission skips). Playing WITH mission skips makes little sense to me for IL's. It's mostly just triple suicide and done right?
Added.
[quote=KVD]It's mostly just triple suicide and done right?[/quote] There's still plenty of segments that you play out and each segment has an optimal way to fail. IL leaderboards show how to optimally complete the mission, even if what's being done isn't necessarily what you'd be using or pulling off in a full run. The point is to determine how close you can come to what's done in the IL, in the actual run. If IL running became massively popular, you'd 100% guaranteed see changes being made in full runs, based off the IL.
Cheers.
Oh I know the value of 1L's, I used to be Time Trial World Champion in Super Mario Kart. I'm just wondering what the incentive is for having mission skip 1Ls...it seems like a bit of an oxymoron. You skip the mission that you intend to be fast playing. I know there are optimal ways to fail, but still, it seems a bit superfluous.
I don't see where the confusion lies. You understand the value of ILs, but fail to see how Any% ILs could be valuable for the Any% category, and likely the other categories as well?
I guess it's just me not understanding the category well enough. My assumption was that most missions were being condensed into triple suicides, ergo most missions are almost identical --> no point in having all these different (yet identical) segments. But I actually watched the WR vod and it seems I was oversimplifying matters and the suicide doesn't come into play as frequently as I expected. Nevermind, my bad.
EDIT: After I posted what's below, I realized this is only making things overly complicated ¤UNLESS¤ only a handful of missions or less have these sort of mid mission cutscenes. If you really care about an IL WR, you have to get it in your head that you may not be able to achieve the time during a semi/full run. Still, post your thoughts.
I don't think skipping mid mission cutscenes should be allowed during ILs. An example would be during Prologue. I believe this can only be done if you start it up through mission replay. Which other missions have mid mission cutscenes which become skippable only if you start the mission through replay? Some mid mission cutscenes are already skippable even without starting the mission through replay, e.g., the garage door scene in Repossession. The reason for not allowing this would be because you aren't able to skip these cutscenes during an actual run. Those of you going for Prologue times should just start a new game and restart the mission upon a mission fail or by just hitting new game in the menu. It requires very little effort to do. As for other missions, just don't skip the cutscenes which would not be skippable in a semi/full run. It's very early on, so it's best this is done now. If people agree then ILs which skipped normally unskippable cutscenes will be backrolled (there's no more than 3 EDIT: or none because it looks like they've disappeared).
Also, when you start a mission through replay, does the first cutscene never play? Some missions have no opening cutscenes, but many do, e.g., Chop starts off with a cutscene showing Franklin hiding from his aunt. If I start Chop through the replay feature, is this cutscene automatically skipped?
The decision is to allow skipping normally unskippable cutscenes after a conversation in Zoton's chat, so those runs will be verified. BTW, the game is weird as it doesn't allow skipping mid mission cutscenes during "Chop" when you replay it through the menu which makes me think the only mission that this works on is Prologue. I don't get how they came to this decision. Regardless, it's allowed.
Reminder: All missions are manually timed (RTA). If a mission has a results screen, it will be timed from the first frame following a loading screen (this first frame may be the start to a cutscene) up to the first frame of the results screen. If a mission doesn't end with a results screen, e.g., "Prologue", then the runners of the game should decide how these missions should be timed. Timing info should be placed under the rules section for these ILs.
(If a mission begins with a cutscene, your video must start before this cutscene begins or start with the first frame of the cutscene. If a mission doesn't begin with a cutscene, your video must start before gaining control (fade in). If a mission ends with a results screen, your video must end after the gold text stating "Mission Passed" has appeared. If a mission doesn't end with a results screen, your video must end after you've regained control.)
^ Manually timed from the first frame of the cutscene up to the first frame of "Mission Passed" (RTA "real time attack). This is the time you submit. The only missions which use the time on the end screen are Boiler Suits and Masks. For those we'll use the time listed next to "Quick Shopper" because they're so short and the whole point is to buy items.
I've had to edit submission times for many of the submissions thus far because they were incorrectly timed. Refer to the first post in this thread for more info.
BTW, you don't have to remove a submission if you're making a new submission with a better time.
I'm a little bit confused about the timing rules for the 1L tables. There seems to be an inconsistency in how missions with result screens are handled. For Masks for example, the time of the results screen (3 seconds) is taken (the RTA would be a bit longer). For Casing the Jewel Store (which also has a results screen) it appears that RTA timing is used.
I was surprised to see a 3 sec time for Masks you see. No big deal of course, but I would like to know for which missions which timing methods are used and why. I thought I understood, but now I'm not so sure anymore. Is it because missions like Masks, Boiler Suits, etc have an open beginning?
