Here's my submission for the Open Wheel Series.
I don't know if it's acceptable that the runs become invalid every time new races are released. If it is then that's fine by me, otherwise I guess the category could be called "All Original Open Wheel Races" like the survivals are and only include the first 7 that were originally released.
Doesn't Rockstar Games already have their own leaderboards for races? So why put them here too?
Because they're cheated and the top times are always 10 second lap times for every track. There are people already uploading their times on Youtube but I guess that could be said for most games.
like the survivals are and only include the first 7 that were originally released.
The reason why there's a clear seperation for the survivals and that's because those survivals where the OG surivals with different mechanics.
R* hard coded them survivals where as the new survivals are now downloaded via their mission website as a json that is intepreted by the survival controller.
We did include at some point the catagory for the new survivals. But then new ones kept getting added and no one ran the catagory. So we removed it
"All Original Open Wheel Races" would only really apply if the open wheel races where in GTA:Online at day 1.
My original complaints against this are as follows.
There is too many varaibles to the run suggestion itself. The fact that races can be set with different groups of vehicles, custom vehicles, using co-op to boost each other using slipstream, limiting it to single player, etc.
Then you have the issue of R* adding more invalidating the catagory. R* have consitently added new races on each update or mid way through update periods. So there would be a constant series of invalidations.
Speedrun.com is not capable of handeling this sort of thing. If you want to go individual races, you would have to add each and every one which there is a lot. Like really, this is all R* really adds besides missions.
A point i made during the stream you brought this up in, not many people will run these. There is so many races and little demand that we'd just create empty ILs for the potential of someone running it. You've mentioned before that people do run some races, but unless you can gather up videos of someone running all races individually. Its not going to happen.
I'll leave this post up to see if other people want demand in it. I'm not completly opposed to the idea. I just have concerns and dont like to fill up the leaderboard with empty catagories
Why would you commit to adding the category if I made the run, if you actually wouldn't? I spent 4 hours making the video just because you promised you would add the category if I produced a run. And when I sent you the link you just told me "good, but create this thread to get community feedback first". Which given what you said the day before, kind of implies you would follow on your word unless there was negative feedback, especially on a forum with as little activity as this one.
As for the original survivals being released at the same time that Online, I don't see how that makes any difference. By that logic only the original missions could ever be added to the leaderboard, yet new missions are added all the time. And by that same logic it would be ok to add a category for all the original races that were released with the game just because they are the "OG races" or whatever.
I don't see how some survivals having different mechanics that other survivals matters. Open Wheel races have different mechanics than normal street races, so what? As for it being an emtpy category, I just submitted one, and would have submitted another for whatever the category we finally agreed on was, if any. That's about the same as there are for the category you created for you survivals run, so that's not a good argument either.
There is too many varaibles to the run suggestion itself. The fact that races can be set with different groups of vehicles, custom vehicles, using co-op to boost each other using slipstream, limiting it to single player, etc.
Missions and heists can be done with different weapons, in different weather conditions and time of day (which aren't under control of the player, unlike in races), using different weapons and vehicles (custom vehicles, too), and also using co-op to help each other in a million different ways. Sometimes only possible to complete using co-op with 2, 4, or 8 other people, and up to 32 people per session in freemode heist preps, while races can always be completed solo.
You've mentioned before that people do run some races, but unless you can gather up videos of someone running all races individually. Its not going to happen.
What? Where does this arbitrary requirement come from? Are there videos of someone running all missions individually? And even if I ran all races individually, how do I know you won't change your mind again, and demand some even harder to meet criteria?
Ok let me clarify some things, i will concede and did say in chat that if you create a video of the run, i would add the catagory. I should state that was wrong of me and i apologies for that. I should have clarified and re-stated the argument i made for adding ils that applies to catagories 4 months ago here "If you guys want it. Then produce two seperate runs from two different people then i'll consider adding it as an IL"
https://www.speedrun.com/gtao/thread/il03y/2. <- See my post that is 4 months old
As for the fourm post requirment, i should have lumped that in with my original message, but that was always a requirment from the begining considering the existing mission request thread and subseqient standard of existing forums posts for other catagory suggestions. I'll admit, the name should be mission/catagory request thread, but blame joshimuz for naming that. After this post, i will make a forum post clarifying the requirments to requesting a catagory or run to be added. Hopefully that solidifies the requirments.
I wanted you to create a forum post, as my chat message suggests, to gage interest around the catagory request. Considering a user above expressed a 'why' to why you want the catagory. That alone is a pretty good indication that ther would be some questions surrounding the catagory itself. Hence the reason for a forum post.
Anyway, on to addressing your points. "As for the original survivals being released at the same time that Online...." & "I don't see how some survivals having different mechanics that other survivals matters...." i didnt say mechanics. There is a fundimental logical difference between the original survivals and the current survivals.
I will concede on the varaible point, however something you should note is that route changes tend to override the better weapons & vehicles point, and weather changes dont play that much of a role in determing getting a WR or PB at this point. In races, you tend to be always on the same line and the only thing that determines getting a WR or PB is the car. Hence my argument for runs consitently invalidating each other with different cars instead of strats or new routes.
"What? Where does this arbitrary requirement come from? Are there videos of someone running all missions individually?..." I should have clarified that this point was in regards to adding the races as ILs, not "All x" catagories. That requirment is not a thing in this case. I just thought i would lump two arguments for All X and ILs
With all that said and done. Let me now take the time to address something. If this discussion was about adding the races as ILs, i would be against adding races as ILs because of the following:
Too many races to add, there is probably over hundreds of different races now. Speedrun.com cant handle it in regards to controllable varaibles and IL max catagories. To many empty catagories. This is where my point about finding people runs you've said they've done would come into play
Missions get a pass considering they where the secondary 'run' thing under heists and as such had people submit under them making them not completly empty. With the added bonus of R* compared to races, doesnt add missions as frequently.
But since this discussion is about adding a "All original open wheel races". Awnser me this, what would you suggest be the solution for the event that someone wants the open wheel races to include the other open wheel races that R* added?
Do we just add another catagory called "All second catagory of open wheel races" Do you just ignore their request and say though luck? Do you just merge the catagories together, in which case you get your original issue or the runs invalidating each other because R* added more open wheel races.
This is where my point suggesting that the survival run has an advantage because A. Its fundementally different on a code level. B. there was a 7 year timegap between R* adding new ones. C. The runs where submitted and ran before R* added new survivals
I'm not completly opposed to the suggestion of versioning the catagory and sorting by that. As long as people are ok with their run being essentially forgotten about because the run now suddenly got longer each update.
I've now made that post, since you did you request before that post and i did say one run in chat. I will allow you to continue your request with the submitted run https://www.speedrun.com/gtao/thread/iyfoe
As for there being potentially hundreds of races, I don't see why you would have to add all of them, and not just the most popular ones requested based on some yet to be determined criteria.
Here are some examples of tracks for which people have already posted their best laps. Sure, GTAO is not mainly about racing. But more people hotlap and post their results in GTA than in many racing games that are solely about racing. As you can see, the WR (of all the times recorded on video at least) for some of the races are very optimized.
Open Wheel - Abridged
Open Wheel - Height of Society
Land Race - Dockyard
If you were to add races as ILs, I'd propose to use the in-game lap time as the timer, since that seems to be what the existing GTAO racing community mainly cares about. This isn't new on this site anyway, the leaderboard for Assetto Corsa already works this way, based on in-game lap times. (https://www.speedrun.com/assetto_corsa/)
The main problem as I see it is most of these people are not speedrunners, and won't bother to create an account on here and submit them rather than just post them on Youtube. If those people's times can't be added without them making an account on here then whatever, don't add the races I guess.
But the argument that the car is all that matters in racing is not a a very valid one when all runs of missions where the Oppressor MkII can be used were made obsolete overnight when that vehicle was released, pretty much regardless of what route they were using before the DLC.
With regards to adding the races of a certain type as a group, then I retract that idea, since I agree nobody would run it and me having the top time just because nobody else bothered would be pretty lame. It was just something I came up with in the moment without thinking it through.
After testing around with SR capabilities, there is no easy way to add or control races in the format we have right now. However, i might have found a bandaid solution that makes everyone happy.
I would propose making a "Race" catagory in the misc section of the full run leaderboards. There you can submit any and all races a user wants. I can even throw in a "Vehicle" varaible to keep people happy. There is one decent glare you will have to overcome with this solution. That is all races will be ranked under one category. However, i belive this will fix itself with the use of filters. You can filter by what race you want to look at.
I do have 2 concerns with this solution.
- I dont know how many varaibles speedrun.com allows before disallowing any new varaible submissions. If it occurs that the limit is short, this idea might fall flat.
- I or Six will not moderate these races. You will have to accept being a verifier if you want this suggestion to take fruit.
Another smaller concern is the use of standerdising. Since I or Six will not be taking responability for this. It'll be up to yourself to ensure that a user is correctly indicating what race and vehicle they did in a custom text box.
There however will be 1 rule in this category, R* offical (I.E created) races only. No user created or R* verified races. This will hopefully avoid cluttering the leaderboard with people doing tons of custom races.
An addional thing to note, if this becomes a thing. Be prepared to deal with the fallout of people using all sorts of shit methods to get the fastest race time. the bugs, fps exploits, curb boosting, brake boosting, short shifting etc and all the shit that was sorta put to bed 2 years ago.
Would it possible to add pre-existing videos by people who don't have speedrun.com accounts, like those I linked above? I suppose the answer is no, but just wanted to check.
It's possible. You can submit runs on the behalf of accounts that dont exist yes, however this usually only exists in the special case of old runs where a runner typcially doesnt run the game anymore or do speedrunning in general. If people want to continue running the category, i'd recommend they get an account and submit it on their own time.
Oh, good. In that case I am willing to become a verifier. I'm not against glitches. Taxon, the guy who has the WR for most Open Wheel races already uses all the known speed glitches except uncapped FPS. But I don't think at this time there are two people with the same skill level that the FPS difference would actually matter.
The category and variables have been created. I wrote a criteria you must set before being able to submit a run.
"Timer starts when a new lap starts. Timer ends when a lap ends.
Submission Rules: R* Created only race tracks - No Verified or Custom race tracks. If the track exists when submitting, DO NOT add another track variable. If it doesnt, follow Pascal Case Rules when submitting a new track. I.E Dont Do This: cutting coroners Do: Cutting Coroners
Critieria: Slipstream: Off, Catchup: Off, Custom Vehicles: Off, Weather: Any, Time: Any
About Glitches: Any run that uses a glitch that is very likely to be patched will be rejected. This includes cars that are bugged with curb boosting abilities."
The timer can either be the in game timer or external timer. The only issue i have with the ingame timer is it doesnt announce your time so you can truely know down the MS what your time is without looking at the last frame. But thats up to you guys to solve that.
You take full responablity for accepting/rejecting these runs and any request or issues surrounding this category. We'll make sure there is no issues with the category in general and to view how its progressing.
Please dont just mass submit runs under users that dont exist on this site. Instead inform people who submit on youtube that this exists and allow them to submit instead.
Also you need to enable email auth in order for me to add you as a verifier:
"Error: daniel77 must enable e-mail authentication before they can be added as a moderator. Tell them to go to Settings and enable "Require e-mail authentication"."
It's been 2 weeks now are you gonna change the setting so i can add you or not? If you dont, i'm afraid i'm gonna just delete the category and call this case closed
I can give a hand with verifying the races runs if it comes to it. Would be nice to submit some runs and get this category running and not leave it empty. You can’t trust Rockstars leader board as some players are able to complete a 2 minute lap in 10 seconds.
After over a month from my last requesting the 2FA, there has been no response. I'm closing this thread and deleting the category. This has got to be the third time someone requested a category, i add it and nothing gets run.
