Forums  /  Grand Theft Auto series  /  Grand Theft Auto IV  /  I realized I cheated in my 5:16:20 (Locked)

As it turns out I was cheating for quite a few months in 2015. When I came back in February I switched from the retail version to the Steam version. I was immediately getting Roman's Sorrow Classic% PB's. In 4 attempts I was able to get a 1:15:29. My comments on that alone are interesting: "Considering I was doing this in a race and OBS crashed, what the fuck is going on, how come I improve so much and i get 2 new PBs at the same day. This was my fourth attempt overall after coming back. WTF."

I didnt understand how I Pb'd back then and rightfully so. If you do take a two month break, you will have to derust severly. This run shows a lot of magicial handling and allows for mistakes to not matter that normally would cost serious time.

Nowadays with updated strats and better game play I could beat that time, but that just comes down to being more experienced and not because my handling is severly off. I doubt with that version I could have gotten a sub 1:10 Roman's Sorrow because for that the advantage is not big enough, it is def and does allow for some time saving there that shouldn't be (skill wise). Realisticially I see that run should be sub 1:19 error wise.

I continued to cheat because I didnt have a direct comparison and so cheated even in the 5:16:20 any% speedrun, that I wasn't able to beat for 5 months. Why? Because the advantage from the botch was just so big that I had to seriously become better at the game and do proper routing.

I also got a new PC and with that came a new Windows installation (getting rid of botched handling).

When Kyle started downgrading, I also tried it out and I found it super weird. Because I couldnt get rid of the weirdness, I reinstalled windows and made a 1.0 retail install, that I cracked and upgraded to 1.04. With this version I did my 4:58:15. The only reason I was finally able to beat my 5:16 is not because of "skill", but because I updated the route and finally got the perfect phone calls, thus saving me a lot of time late game that I did lose in my 5:16 (just because this stuff wasn't figured out at all, which makes it even weirder that I was able to get such a time in the beginning of July). In fact at Undertaker I was 10 minutes behind the 5:16. That comes down to it being a race but even then with all updated strats and a really good run, which avoids many mistakes and issues the 5:16:20 has, I can only get a 5 minute better Undertaker. In theory more. But again it demands great RNG.

So I did cheat. I don't feel bad for admitting it. The reasons are obvious. I was a noob, came in between retirement and didnt notice anything off with my game.

As soon as I switched to a newer PC with a correct Steam installation, I had the comparison between weird driving and correct one, which is why I didnt do the downgrade because even in August I found it to be incorrect. I didnt realize not only was it incorrect, but it gave you a time advantage.

The botch can be combined in various forms. Getting rid of it is hard, so it is a beginners trap if you don't know the game well enough.

The first version you will install on your pc will be the one you will have to use. No downgrading, no installations of steam, when a retail version was present and so on.

So installing a retail version 1.04, then "uninstalling" it and installing a 1.07 steam and then downgrading doesnt give you weird handling. It will still give you advantages that actual 1.04 doesnt have and most likely does come from files not properly downgraded.

Actual 1.04 does have AI not pathing correctly. It can be a pain to get Little Jacob through Russian Revolution for example. With the downgrade it won't be broken.

We need an open discussion about the version botching and not allow someone to just deny its exististence. Kyle has been showing magic even in classic%. Sub 1:10 Roman's Sorrow is not possible. So how can he have magic handling, when he has been using Steam 1.07 back then?

What was his first version ever installed? These are questions, that are allowed to be asked and should be answered.

In the end this holds true and you can test it yourself.

1. Play GTA IV/SA
2. Switch settings to very low
3. Quit game
4. Copy the setting file (C:\Users\[username]\AppData\Local\Rockstar Games\GTA IV\Settings)
5. Switch settings to very high
6. Quit game
7. Copy over the setting file with the ones from the very low settings

Somehow the driving and some of the animations break. I don't know why. So this would be interesting to find out what went wrong in the code. The settings files are encrypted, so finding out how the game interprets them and what they contain is not easy.

RNJesusRNJesus, Wayno717Wayno717 and 2 others like this. 
  [user deleted]

lol you cheated

ZachoholicZachoholic, ElguElgu and 2 others like this. 

I also have something to admit, i dont own the hard copy version of gtaiv and my disk drive is broken.

I lied to ilias and told him im on hardcopy upgraded to 1.04 but im actually on steam version downgraded from 1.07 to 1.04.

Ilias has said many times to me that my driving doesn't look botched and is legit and has told me im on the legit version even confirmed it him self. i am on the same version that kyledoesit is on if my version is good then so is kyles.

the botch is a meme its a hidden plecebo you diddnt cheat you just got better.

why does my driving look worse then kyles because of skill clearly.

you can watch this vod of ilias here if you need a confirmation on it

sorry i rused and baited you buddy

ZachoholicZachoholic, ElguElgu and 10 others like this. 

Long ago you mentioned the downgrade instruction in the resources would botch the game every single time (the everytime bit is important, i'll come back to it later). So i looked very close at it and most of it is back up your shit stuff. The actual downgrade process is just 2 steps. 1: Install the official patch released and provided by rockstar and 2: Install the official launcher provided and released by rockstar. So pretty much install software related to the game made by the first party.

So let's pretend patching can botch the game, even though we don't have an actual proof. And no "looking at it and see that things feel different" is not a real proof. Then patching has two possible outcomes: Normal and botched. At the same time there are two possible outcomes from the dev side. Intended and not intended. So let's combine alle 4 outcomes.

1. Patcher worked as intended and game is normal - perfect scenario, ideally we want that

2. Patcher didn't work as intended but the game is normal - The game is the way we wanted to be, so why worry about the dev side

3. Patcher worked as intended but game is botched - The game is botched, but that is what the dev intended, so it doesn't matter again and we can run that version

4. Patcher didn't work as intended and the game is botched - This scenario is a glitch.

So let's say scenario 4 happened. Do we really ban the use of a glitch with first party software, that is 100% reproducible for every single runnner (see the remark i made at the start), while allowing all other glitches? Partial glitchless categories are pretty stupid in my opinion. Especially if you want to continue calling them any%.

ZachoholicZachoholic, Kollin7Kollin7 and 5 others like this. 

I already said that Kyledoesit uses even more than just a downgraded steam botch. So you nailed your own ass. If I could downgrade the steam version and than match kyle's time, don't you think I would? It does give you an advantage and I found myself saving in classic% Roman's Sorrow by one minutes.

The botch I describe up there is not a steam downgrade. It is a previous retail 1.04 and then a steam 1.07 install. Very different.

I analyzed the times you got in the 5:02 and since you are not a great player the times were nothing out of the reach. Alltough I already said that some off the shit I dont get as you lost a lot of time before undertaker but kept on par with my 4:58 PB. That doesnt make a whole lot of sense.

But again this just shows how terrible and toxic this community is. Hey let's just lie. That sucker took me serious without him going over the whole fucking run analyzing everything to bits and pieces.

This behavior is more discusting than anything I have ever seen.

Hey lying. Totes okay. I did it to proof. No, you abused my good will. That's what you did.


Please do not insult people in this forum.

ZachoholicZachoholic likes this. 

So no, downgrading botching is not what Kyle does. He does even more which I still have to find. So what was your point?

The proof that you are without the doubt the most dishonest shithead I ever met?

Congrats. Proof provided.


Besides when I did analyse your new "pb" I did analyze times (not drives) and I noticed them to be off. I asked you if you were on the retail upgraded and you did uninstall properly. You said:

17:59:01] 1.04
[17:59:04] deleted
[17:59:05] yes
[17:59:56] yes lol
[18:00:00] we had this talk before
[18:01:54] i proly lost 2 min at the end because i diddnt have kyles thing open
[18:02:00] i diddnt think i was going to pb
[18:02:06] and the steam browser was down
[18:02:08] lol

I even tried to nail your ass on mentioning the steam browser and you didnt reply.

Why did I ask so much?

Because I was smelling it. But in the end taking someone's word is normal. Yeah what a mistake.

But you just outted yourself to be the biggest scumbag, so the trap is just for you.

I have enough proof that I smelled it 😛


So 2 videos got removed because Ilias got permed off twitch 😕

Edit: Sorry all of the videos got removed

RNJesusRNJesus likes this. 

yea im a scum bag but the only reason i did this all was to see whats going on. i knew with out the thought of me cheating with botch was going to be a clean slate between us. so when you saw my runs you saw that my run was clean now that you have this going in your head that i botched your whole opinion has changed on it the reality is that me and kyle have the same version so this is all done now

RNJesusRNJesus likes this. 

I watched you for maybe half an hour and more today. And I was very critical of you and just decided to take your word even though my doubt remind and I made clear so.

So the nice gta community (at least some off them) got my account banned yet again and since this seems to be third strike it's perma for now. So for someone being this off they seem to care way too much.

But guess what I did upload at least part of the cheated Roman's Sorrow to my youtube.

You have to be blind to need see the driving being off.

So no this attempt of getting rid of the evidence didnt work all the way. Try again.

Also no Ryedawg you do not have the same version. If you would, you would be getting some weirder times. More insane.

Again learn to read correctly. If he would just downgrade steam and run with that and that is the version he is using, don't you think I would do so and replicate his times to get him? Because even that is still not enough to cheat like Kyledoesit.


Yeah the community banned it, cant be the mass restreaming, the non-gaming content or the hitler memes.


Well you are known for making x-alt accounts to harrass, even now decide to post on this topic you know don't understand.

Your hatred against me is just sheer insanity.

So you having a ton of accounts to mass report a channel you dont like? Very realistic.

Nothing against watching someone and adding my commentary. Pretending that cheating in a speedrun is not gaming content.

That's some serious reality bending.

And hey cannot make fun of hitler. Only Kittymuz is allowed to compare me to him and I end up worse than him.

RNJesusRNJesus likes this. 

You act like you didn't break the twitch TOS


If you would read the TOS pretty much everyone would be violating it because it is so thinly veiled. It's just a we can do whatever you want card. No I did not violate stuff they really hate.

Are you still pretending that proofing someone is cheating in a speedrun is totally no gaming content?

It's funny that you didn't even deny mass reporting my channel.

So instead of derailing this dicussion by your personal vengenda, how we keep it on the topic. I cheated. I admit to it. You have to be blind to not see it.


Did you play GTA4 or did you restream someone playing GTA4?