This won't be about why WR is a cheat. It's about the fact that so far Kyledoesit hasn't tried to explain anything.

He has been given plenty chances to give an explanation. He completely ignores me, but yet again manages to constantly personally attack and belittle me and the allegiations. Just by saying he is better and he has the skill and apparentely microoptimizes so well that his Roman's Sorrow on average is two minutes faster than mine even though in the last months I put in an insane amount of time into that grind and also optimized the route to be faster.

Unfortunately the mods for GTA IV are only Jolzi, who hasn't done a run in over a year and so far hasn't done an any% time and Kyledoesit, who is the accused. He also verified his own run which is no proof but yet again is not helping in this matter.

So in the name of the community I ask that his runs will be removed until he can give an explanation and proves in innocence which he can do easily by streaming with a keyboard cam and a microphone.

I have asked him multiple times to do so, but again I am ignored.

If nothing will happen, I will forced to go through the site admins.

If this gets deleted by Kyledoesit because he still has mod for this game, I also will go through the site admins.

I´m not against Kyle, but to explain it from my side: I followed the myth about Kyle that he is cheating and turned his car-handling from 1.4% to 1.5% that he can drive faster around corners and can go faster straight ahead... summarized, it must be more controlled what for not legit things a person do to be a "faster" speedrunner to own the WR. I´m not a expert at the topic and I can not prove if he is 100% cheating in the GTA 4 WR Any% run, but im at your opinion. It can be easier in the world when every person is honest as the other person.

Greetings, Sam

And yet again another personal insult. Gee. You sure seem to be upset. If you are innocent I am a looney why not just explain why you get for example always the second van?

this will end well I'm sure Kappa

ilias, when's making a forum post with all those proves, also i completely disagree with this [quote]I ask that his runs will be removed until he ... proves in innocence[/quote] people are innocent until proven guilty and accusers must provide the proof

Because I "clearly" said it is his handling file. It was theory that I never said was the answer. And why not ask the maker of the drives premiumvision? While he is able to beat him it's because of wider drives because he knows the game instead of kyle's magic turning tighter bullshit.

But hey let's concentrate on shit i never said because clearly I never proved anything and it's literally only the handling file even do I haven't said that for 4 days now.

I guess here is evidence that even you might understand and question that have been raised but never answered.

1. He ALWAYS gets second van. Impossible. It's rng 51%. Yet he never gets fucked by it.

2. He never gets Easy fare'd or has other cop chases own him because they can have really shit rng

3. His first date Goldsplits are 8 Seconds better than mine even though I use more uptodate strats and a frame limiter.

4. He changed his timer from splitting every mission and showing miliseconds to first split being Roman's Sorrow and seconds only showing.

5. He cannot explain how I am supposed to catch up to him? He should be able to explain how to become better and not use a magic "skill" as the excuse to play like a roboter.

6. His traffic is much lighter than it should be even for one vehicle density. It seems doctored.

7. His route is quite a bit slower than mine.

8. He does outside the drives really big mistakes a person this "skilled" wouldn't do.

9. He does drives with way too tight turns. In GTA IV you don't turn tight. You turn in a way to keep the max. speed up.

10. He does a perfect motorcycle drive without a frame limiter or vsync yet has no spinning out issue.

11. He never gets fucked by the physics engine and never has his car spin out of controll which is something the game does to you and you have to take it.

12. He somehow managed to blow a car up instantly with the shot gun in 2 Shots because he somehow destroys the fuel tank? The only explanation I found was that he must have upped the damage of the shotgun.

13. He flies the helicopter without any place for errors and says he is confident

14. He stopped using a microphone so he can hide his cheating as I stronly suspect the keyboard presses don't happen

15. He pretends he can't wait until he will reach sub 9:20 which just can't be because this time is under my gold splits and you better explain why you think you can reach that.

The list is very much long but hey let's ignore all of that and jump at something that Ilias said days ago without even claiming it.

And another really big one:

15. He still won't stream with the webcam on the keyboard and the microphone being on. I asked him multiple times to do so and nothing has happened.

It's amazing to see all these non GTAiv runners have such a great opinion of the speedrun and why Kyle is so legit. He doesn't even have to do any explaining. He can just sit back and taunt and people that don't even know the game will defend him.

So if you are going to pretend this list has been answered and pick out things and misrepresent them. Even if he did change handling he would still do driving mistakes and get fucked by the game. None of that happens.

People want to believe these times. I did the grind. I can't even get there in theory.

It just amazing to see how people ignore this overwhelming evidence.

With so much you have to at least finally explain something and deliver rather than let your henchmen do the work.

I challenge ANYONE to get sub 9:30. If noone can get it no matter the grind and somehow can, it is beyond human. You cannot break the game harder than it does allow.

And btw Ryedawg I reinstalled my game just two days ago and haven't done anything anymore. This again is the perfect example of Whataboutism.

Suddenly it is not about Kyle cheating, but somehow now I'm the cheater?

And for gael I posted enough. If you haven't watched all the proof and all the shit I have highlighted i can't help you. You cannot even complain that it is hours long.

He is a sneaky cheater and it amazes me how you people don't even know the game, yet you know his play his human.

So here we go:

How about you watch the vids and then explain me calmy why I'm wrong.

And no "Kyle is better" doesn't explain it.

It does not explain how you cannot get fucked by rng. This game is an rng grind. Kyle never did that grind.

Might I recommend instead of linking people 2 vids of an hour each, most of it being nothing but thinking, mumbling and random chatter (long sections where no new information is given), you make a dedicated video to this issue of about 5-8 minutes. In this video: You explain your points, and show what specifically causes you to think that, explain why this means that Kyle is cheating and why this can NOT be explained by 'skill', accompanied by video footage of only the relevant bits

You're the one accusing Kyle, it is your job to convince people of what you think. You won't do so by making overly long videos containing a lot of nothing. Nobody is going to watch those.

You won't succeed in convincing people either by getting all worked up and shouting at people, because lets face it, you've got some temperament issues and the trolls are not helping you with that. You need to sit down, alone, and produce something a little more thought out, in an environment that is not stressful (so no stream, and no twitch chat to distract you).

Key-word being 'thought out'. Don't come up with things to say on the fly (as is usual when streaming.) Write something up beforehand, make sure you got your points straight and know what you're going to say. Nobody is interested in watching someone type numbers into calculator.exe/notepad.exe for 5 minutes straight, so get these numbers ready beforehand. And of course (These preparations are similar to the preparations you would do if you had to do a presentation or a speech in front of an audience.) Also keep in mind that you talk extremely fast most of the time and speak with a thick accent, making you difficult to understand at times.

Lastly, as you have said yourself, most people you are trying to convince don't know the game very well. Be sure you cater to them and give them any background information they need.

Truly lastly: Be prepared to make multiple of these kinds of videos. People will ask you questions in response to your first video. You may want to respond to these immediately, but that clearly hasn't worked out so far, as you and I are both aware. Make a second video as a followup to any questions asked after the first video. Think of it as a Q/A video, but keep this one SEPARATE from your 'this is what I think and why I think this' video.

Again, you're the accuser. You have to convince us of his guilt, not the other way around. Nobody is getting paid for any of this, so if you want the relevant people (Leaderboard mods/admins, viewers, fellow speedrunners.) to put effort in educating themselves on Kyle, you're going to have to put effort yourself into communicating your points. Until then, most people are just going to view you as the screaming loonie who's got nothing better to do than to be obsessed with Kyle. Note: Streams, with their chaotic and messy nature, do NOT count as effort. They almost never have for anyone. That's why you're being made fun of.

In short, invest some more time in communicating your points, rather than merely researching them and spurting out the information as it comes up.

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Responses to posts from above: While the video Kyle linked may have been a personal assault, it is a good example of how you sometimes don't properly listen to what people have to say.

Gael's post I am in agreement with. A forum post (again, well written, thought out, not one written in 5 minutes.) may be an alternative to the video, but it might be less effective since you'll have to link to timestamps and people aren't patient enough for the Twitch VOD player.

The list you posted is a great start. You could maybe work from here and explain these points a bit better. Kyle: I know you think Feuri is a lost cause, but maybe it might be an idea to take some time to answer these 15 points regardless. If not for Feuri, then for the outsiders who aren't completely aware of what is going on. You're still being put in a bad daylight because it is undeniable Feuri streams more than you so it is more likely people get to know you via his stream than via your own. Idc if you care.

"Kyle should use handcam, but he won't". Has Kyle even streamed at all in the past few weeks? Of course he's not using handcam if he hasn't done a stream at all. There are no past broadcasts, presumably auto deleted by Twitch. This makes it hard for people to research his 'extreme good luck' that was mentioned, since runs with bad luck have a high chance of being killed and thus not ending up highlighted. I agree that for his next couple of streams (whenever those will be), Kyle should indeed use handscam, regardless of how dumb he thinks this whole ordeal is. If anything, do it to make people shut up.

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This thread has the benefit of being easily accessible and easy to read back on. A lot of "you're not answering my questions/listening to what Im saying" is being thrown around, coming from both sides. However, these questions being asked get lost over time in Twitch Chat/Vod/Random YouTube videos noone can find back.

I hope we can make this thread civilized and have at least one place where people won't throw shit back and forth. That can be done elsewhere.

I have no interest in entertaining the majority of this lunatic's delusions. Who in their right mind would even believe for a second that someone is able to run countless scripts throughout a 4+ hour speedrun and manage to pull it off? This psychopath believes that I'm literally sitting back in my chair as a script drives the car for the majority of the drives in this game. The day I go to any length to prove that this isn't happening is the day you can replace him with me at the nut house. Anyone who watches my streams knows I don't always get "second van" and knows Easy Fare doesn't always go flawlessly. So many of his concerns can be explained with the simple fact that I'm more skilled than him, but he immediately shuts down when the word "skill" is mentioned. Can someone sit down with this guy and explain to him the concept of "skill" and how two people can put an equal amount of time into something and come out with varying ability? Yeah, good luck with that. I compared my handling file to Ryedawg's out of my own curiosity. They were identical. There're many online tools to accomplish this with. I'm not mentioning this to satisfy Ilias. I'll address the "concerns" to hopefully satisfy those of you who are sane.

1. Covered
2. Covered
3. The only split file I have with splits for the first four missions shows a 9:19.82 best possible time for First Date. He claims his is a 9:23:xx. We all know neither of our splits are 100% accurate.
4. I changed my timer because it looks better and it reflects the time format on the leaderboard.
5. Here's a hint: Maybe you should actually practice more than the first few missions?
6. What can I even say about this other than you're wrong?
7. Our personal records don't seem to reflect this.
8. That'd be because I'm not a "roboter".
9. This is a major exaggeration. Most drives are done correctly, given the circumstances.
10. You mean the mission that I've crashed and/or died on multiple times in the past few months of attempts due to curbs/bumps in the road? I get between 60-90 FPS during this drives and am skilled enough to not spin out when making turns. Maybe you should practice?
11. Covered
12. This is extremely rare. It happened to Mawfeen in the exact same way.
13. Skill and confidence (covers drives and on-foot segments as well).
14. Give me a break.
15. I'm striving for perfection with First Date. It is, after all, a very serious record.

Every video created because of these accusations has shown nothing suspicious is going on, even those put out by Ilias show this. It's only his delusional ranting on these videos which might make someone think otherwise. I've already made a pastebin which covers the differences between a 9:27 and a 9:46 First Date. http://pastebin.com/typykFje

Oh, and here's a video showing my RS personal record, achieved live on stream on Nov. 10th, 2015. It was the first attempt of the night. Can't wait to see how this is used. (Blocked in Germany and a part at the beginning is muted, otherwise it would have been blocked worldwide)

And yet again people go with "I am better and you suck" and you all believe it. I like speedrunners that don't know the grind and don't know the rng believe kyle.

I will give 50€ for doing what Kyle does. Apparentely beating a 9:26 First Date is easy.

Rules? Has to be streamed, Microphone and also no frame limiter.

I have put 13 Days into any% and apparentely didn't even practice enough to get the same First Date or even anywhere close to it.

He says skill and out of nowhere people that haven't grinded the game know that he is legit and ilias is just jealous why I have to suffer constant bullying and insults (which with aboutism again is no bullying).

The GTA IV speedrun community is apparentely too small to attract any numbers.

I also like the fact that he says he covered why he always gets second van.

and also no it is not rare. It is not what happened to mawfeen. You instablow the car up. You didnt set it on fire like Mawfeen or even like myself.

To even imply I should practice more is just lol.

And S you have no say in this matter. All you do on this matter is being opposed and hostile. So how about you let this discussion be between me and kyle instead of pooping your own opinion in that "I'm just rambling".

What I say I stand by now. I know the game. I know what he does is impossible and at least it has one good thing. Kyle becomes even more cocky.

But hey apparentely it is so hard to show a stream with your keyboard and mic?

What are you afraid off? I already said if you would do it and play like magic Kyle, I will apologize and this drama is over.

I have streamed the last month GTA IV speedruns for at least 4 hours a day.

So I'm done with this. I don't think you could find a better community that would habor a cheater.

And I also like the myth that people repeat that I don't have any proof.

Even though he personally said Gold Splits First Date are 9:16 they suddenly now become 9:19 and even then are better without explanation as I use pistol strats to the extreme in Bleedout. Also he starts the timer earlier than I do.

There's a reason S is a GTA mod and why his opinion matters. He's been part of this community and an active runner for way longer than you, ilias. You dismissing him like that proves how close minded you are, along with the claim you played San Andreas more than runnerHAWORTH and can objectively analyze SA driving. You have personally called my 1.5k hours invested in Vice City (or by your words, Vice Shitty) irrelevant, and that I didn't try hard enough, even though I held the WR on 2 separate occasions, but yet again, I, like S and anyone else with a dissenting opinion should shut up because we don't know the game. You insult people profusely, yet claim we're bullying you. Your main proof that Kyle cheats, is that you can't match his times even though you grind a lot. I've probably invested more hours into VC any% than MH and KZ, yet fell behind. You don't magically master everything you do just by doing it long enough.

you should really aim to be concise with evidence + claims, there are people (like me) who genuinely have no idea what you even think he does because you've claimed literally everything from editing the game's engine, editing car handling, scripting the drive (and disregarding any timelosses on a drive as "him having to take over"), messing with RNG consistency...

2 1 hour videos are terrible proof when half of it is just you rambling, you should simply write out your claim as concisely as possible, and show your evidence, and avoid personal biases.

That said, I've watched your stream a fair bit and think you're simply a fruitcake - you were claiming yesterday that he also cheats at san andreas, when others who have much more experience with the game disagreed. Any of those people who DID dare to disagree, you called biased, ignoring your own personal dislike (see: negative bias) for kyle. When I said something about someone else in your chat, you said that was "just accusations", as if what you're saying isn't.

So, provide the evidence in a manner that people will actually read and I'm willingly to be critical, you should try do the same

[quote]And S you have no say in this matter. All you do on this matter is being opposed and hostile. So how about you let this discussion be between me and kyle instead of pooping your own opinion in that "I'm just rambling". [/quote] My opinion is irrelevant. What IS relevant though is that I'm not the ONLY person who thinks you are just rambling. I am telling you what people think, and I gave you advice on what to do with that. Everything I wrote in the long post is not because of MY opinion, its because of the opinion of others.

I'm merely telling you what to do: Invest more time in communicating your proof, not just researching it. If you feel like people aren't taking you serious, don't pretend I didn't explain to you why and what you can do about it.

I am NOT commenting on Kyle's skill/cheats/hacks/whatever in this thread. All I did is giving you feedback on your communication skills, which are lacking. But hey, if you want to continue being called a 'screaming nut who makes no sense' and a 'rambling fool who people have difficulty understanding', by all means feel free to dismiss anything I have said and continue doing 2 hour long videos with little information. I guess that's what advice is for.

Edit: Bubbleb0bbler phrased this better than I ever could. Read his post.

[quote]What are you afraid off? I already said if you would do it and play like magic Kyle, I will apologize and this drama is over.[/quote]

Even if you do prove Kyle was cheater, you handled this whole thing poorly. The fuck will an apology do?

It ¤does¤ matter if he cheated or not. You can't just go "oh yeah, current WR is this but we know that guy is cheating, we just allowed him lol". I think by expressing his doubts, Ilias did a good thing. And that was literally the only good thing he did. And he couldn't even do it properly.

[quote=xHaviiHx]No one is forced to stream with a webcam, absolutely not. We should stop this whole drama, this is going to far in my opinion. Let me say this, what does it even matter if he cheated. I don't think he did but if he did: He is lying to everyone, he is lying to himself, he has no skill, etc etc. Don't have anything more to say. Just please, be nice and let's stop this whole drama issue.[/quote]

You basically just said 'Let's just stop this whole trial, the who cares if the guy murdered someone, he has no morals, no soul, and he's lying to himself that he didn't do it. Just like the murderer go'

Flaming is not the focus of the drama which could be stopped with a simple thread lock, but this is a matter of proving something like a case which won't be stopped with a simple thread lock.

Ilias isn't pulling things out of nowhere is what people don't understand, if you look at some of the comparison videos, it is enough to understand what his claims are and they make sense. I don't run this game, i don't claim to know everything, i've given my input and tried to make logic out of why several things happen to kyle.

Things like him being faster or equally as fast when he does worse don't make sense, (comparison videos) it is indeed easy to edit the handling files, i have seen a person even do it on SA as a test without barely knowing much, and the fastest/slowest car in the game can go faster and it's not very noticable, but saves time anyway.

There are several things that are sketchy, and about him cheating in SA, i remember myself that he got sketchy times at the start of a run, 12 minutes in, and he improved his LS strangely quick, from 1:26 to 1:19, the VODs are not there anymore.

Feurigerilias, I've seen a lot of the evidence from you, but I have strong reasons to believe that Kyle is not cheating. I have seen evidence from both sides, and keep in mind that I have not dismissed your evidence just because it is from you, nor have I accepted the counterevidence into my heart because it is not from you. I also will not comment on your attitude towards other people giving their opinions.

Your evidence has included comparisons and suspicions about Kyle's driving being due to a modified handling file, but just because he drove differently than before does not mean that he modified his handling file. What more is there to say? Should I accuse KZ_Frew of modified handling in Vice City because his sum of bests is better than mine, and I've been running it much longer than he has? Of course not, he just can do some things differently (and quite possibly better) than I can, that's something anyone can accept for their respective speedgames. We're a community, we're not together to be suspicious of each other for trivial things like modifying files, when it could very possibly be skill at certain parts of the run. Clearly Kyle knows so much about GTA IV, and he would have zero reason to cheat in a run where nobody even has times close to his. You have grinded very hard as well but I distinctly remember you not keeping up-to-date with strats that Kyle used, when he did not come directly to you to tell you about new strats and ways of doing things, possibly even driving. That's not his problem that he was doing things differently.

[quote=m00nchile] Your main proof that Kyle cheats, is that you can't match his times even though you grind a lot. I've probably invested more hours into VC any% than MH and KZ, yet fell behind. You don't magically master everything you do just by doing it long enough. [/quote]

You accused Kyle of scripting but how the hell does someone go about scripting drives in a game like GTA, and getting them fairly well every time? He also did streams with mic on, where you could clearly hear him hitting his keyboard in tune with the driving, like one would expect, and still pulling in good times. That alone eliminates the possibility of scripting.

Go ahead and dismiss my post because I don't run GTA IV, because I can't have relevant opinions for this game, but you can for GTA:SA. May as well remind you that m00nchile, S., bubblebobbler, and even I have been speedrunning / been part of the speedrunning community for longer than you have, and our say is not something to be taken lightly.

[quote=m00nchile] There's a reason S is a GTA mod and why his opinion matters. He's been part of this community and an active runner for way longer than you, ilias. [/quote]

With that said, I have decided that Kyle is not cheating.