Glitchless Category
2 years ago
Romania

@stereotypical First of all, I'm not showing superiority in front of others, especially to just one member from this community. I'm expressing my personal thoughts, and from the looks of it, a few people actually agree with me on the points that I make. So, I dunno why you say that I am condescending.

Second of all, sure, others have responsibilites in life, like our mods here. My guy, do you want to know something funny that you are probably not aware of? On 26th November, a few runs for OG Gta 3 have been verified by Kamiks himself, and now it's December 1st, and some runs for III DE are still in fucking pending, since November 25th. I'm sure that you can always take an hour or 2 from your free time schedule to verify some runs, or one run at least per day, but nah, let's just verify them after 3 weeks! Great idea man! And don't get me wrong, I'm patient most of the time, but seeing mods for VC:DE and SA:DE showing more dedication to those games than the mods for III:DE actually makes me sad. I am saying this because I actually run III:DE and would love to optimize it myself, hell, even make a proper route for it and get WR one day.

Edited by the author 2 years ago
Lordmau5 likes this
Poland

@Churp No, it does matter how interesting the category is when it comes to creating such arbitrary categories as "Glitchless". As hoxi said, saying that some other game does this and has certain categories is not an argument, I don't care what Mirror's Edge does, I don't even care what other GTA games from the 3D trilogy do on their leaderboards. What is this elitism? Just because qoznyyy hasn't done any DE runs, doesn't mean his opinion is invalid. Moreover, you seem to agree with n0jn0j who sympathizes with your opinion, but he doesn't even have any GTA runs himself. I also don't get how "the mods being lazy with verifying" and 10-Year Anniversary version being on the same leaderboard matters to the topic. I'm not sure if you know (you clearly don't), but I've been verifying a bunch of 10-Year Anniversary speedruns and if you look at the statistics, III and VC has almost the same amount of runs on the leaderboard. We have the right to take up to 21 days since the submission was made to verify the speedrun.

@Lordmau5 I am "hurt" by adding the category because I don't want it there, lol. On the other hand, who is being hurt by running a category that doesn't exist on the leaderboard?

PeeBee likes this
Germany

It seems the community that wants to run this game is in favor of having this category though, and I feel that this should be taken into consideration and, when the majority wants it, be added to the leaderboards.

"Who is hurt by running a cat. that doesn't exist on the leaderboard?" Those that want to easily compare themselves to other players in that same category. I shouldn't have to find every single runner of that category and make my own spreadsheet and manually put every run in just so I can compare myself when I could easily just check one central place (which in this case is the leaderboards on SRcom) for other runners, their respective position and my own position in that category.

Churp likes this
Pomorskie, Poland

Gaslighting everyone by saying III:DE don't care about the game because they don't want to cater to your desires is childish, manipulative and, most of all, misinformed. If you've done some surface level research in the community Discord, you'd see the moderators do care about the games (all 3 of them) in more ways than just moderating the boards. They help with finding strats, along with comparing differences between DE and the originals (along with different DE versions). Mentioning runs taking a while to verify in the tone that you did isn't exactly painting you in a good light, because as stereotypical said, the mods have at least 21 days to verify a run. And the runs always get verified, maybe a bit later than in the other GTAs, but I don't see it as much of a problem.

All arguments I've seen so far for adding this category seem to just come down to "because I want this!". Which doesn't make much sense, considering how vanilla this game is compared to the original GTA III. DE in comparison is pretty much glitchless.

There's also the case of being condescending to other community members because they don't run this very specific game, therefore their opinion doesn't count. You don't get people on your side by being an ass. And why do opposing opinions from people who don't run the game don't matter, but favorable opinions from the same people are a-okay? What are these double standards?

East Riding of Yorkshire, England

Just here to say that someone being new to the community, saying they've only been here for a few weeks, then saying they "grinded their ass off" for a 1:31 Any% and then immediately starting to flame another runner for not running the game isn't exactly a great first impression.

Shit-talking other runners (who are better than you, for what it's worth), isn't the best way to get your point across. Everyone is welcome to their opinion, but if you come out guns blazing like that people aren't gonna take you seriously.

As for the glitchless argument, you're going to have a very difficult time defining a glitch in these games. Especially in these editions which right now have almost no glitches in the first place. If anything, this should likely be revisited later down the line if anything significant is discovered.

As for now, play how you want to play. Simple as that.

Edited by the author 2 years ago
Romania

@Kamiks0320 From what I've just read, coming from you, it's honestly just straight up bullshit that I can't agree with, because the points you're making just don't really connect properly.

Mentioning the Mirror's Edge speedrunning community matters, because, as a whole, speedrunning is a hobby, and there's multiple games in this damn world that you can speedrun yourself. A Speedrunning community or any other community of some sort, has to make decisions, and need to be taken into proper consideration. Ok, I get it, you don't give a fuck about the Mirror's Edge community, but you don't also care about the other boards for 3D Trilogy DE? Excuse me? You, who have been modding the OG GTA III Leaderboards for years, and who is also modding the boards for III:DE right now? Shame on you!

If a community wants a certain category, which in this case, it's either "Glitchless" or "Any% NMG", but mostly "Glitchless", to be on the MAIN BOARDS THEMSELVES, and not on other leaderboards, in this case "Meme leaderboards" or whatever, then why do the mods of the main boards themselves don't want to see that certain category, on the main leaderboards? As a Super/Game mod for these boards, it's their responsibility to create that category, listen to the community, and it's also up to THEM if they want to run it or not. It's not just you who decides if Glitchless is worth being a present category on the boards, it's the community's decision too. Andy here, doesn't want to do glitches, because he doesn't like them, and he'd be more comfortable and happy running Glitchless. It's also worth mentioning that I would be happy running III:DE Glitchless as well, if R*/GSG are gonna bother to patch the weapon sprinting glitch or the infinite rpg ammo exploit on the PC platform. I just don't understand your way of thinking by this point.

"Elitism"? What are we, philosophers now?! I don't agree with qoznyyy's opinion, because, first of all, despite him being in the GTA Speedrunning Community, he's not running this game as of right now, and probably doesn't want to, and would also prefer the Original 2001 game over this remaster, because it has so many game breaking glitches compared to DE, AND he also comes in this thread, gives a link out of nowhere, with meme leaderboards (or, "Category Extensions" in this case) for the GTA Franchise, which include multiple categories such as "Glitchless", "Any% Dupeless" etc. PSA, "Glitchless" is NOT considered a "meme run" by the general public, and should ABSOLUTELY NOT be under any circumstance, placed in Category Extensions or on meme leaderboards for a game franchise.

My point is, if you don't run that particular game which in this particular case is III:DE, and you just decide to participate in a thread for a game that you don't even run yourself, then why participate in this thread in the first place? To want some attention, confuse people and make them angry? Fuck no, dude! That's absolutely unacceptable, in any regard.

And yes, I do agree with n0jn0j, because despite him not running GTA games, he gave his OVERALL personal thoughts on NMG/Glitchless not being a category a main game's boards, and therefore, a good point about this. As we all know very well by this point, "Glitchless" has its pros and cons such as: It may be boring for some people to watch, but as long as the runner himself enjoys running Glitchless, then it's not a problem. And a pro argument of this, is that you can show so much of the game content that you are being provided, to the general public, and some people are interested in that sort of thing, and they also take it in consideration.

And don't start with the absolute bullshit assumption of me "not checking game statistics", because I do check them and take them in consideration. And from what I have seen, the statistics for the VC Remastered boards have runs for both 10 year Anniversary and The Definitive Edition game itself, whereas, the Gta 3 Remastered boards, only have runs that have been done on THE 10 YEAR ANNIVERSARY EDITION of the game. In short, more of the categories on VC Remastered have actually been ran, compared to the Gta 3 Remastered categories.

Also from what I can tell, the statistics for the "VC Remastered" and "SA Remastered", look in a much better state, than the stats for "Grand Theft Auto III: Remastered". I, for one, don't give a fucking damn about the mobile ports of these games cuz they are a complete mess, especially the so called "San Andreas Remastered", also firstly known as "Gta SA 10 Year Anniversary", which came out 8 years ago, and is still a disaster of a port from a game that came out 17 years ago!

Germany

@EBen - I agree with glitchless being pretty much impossible in these games as you are just gonna be encountering some stupid stuff here and there.

Is your character clipping through the floor a glitch? What about the car clipping through some walls? Abusing a supercop / ultracop for a quick bustedwarp? (I don't think there's a strat for this, just an example of some glitch that could happen) And most importantly - weapon sliding, what if that's being done by accident because you switch from your fists to the gun, or back? It gives you a slight advantage if you only do it once, and it would add up over the whole run.

Which is why I proposed "No Major Glitches" instead like we have it for SA already, for example. As mentioned as well, there's an intentional dupe / trick / glitch with rampages where you can get near infinite ammo for some weapons - I saw it in one of the unverified runs and the runner had 30k RPG ammo which, as I've said, wouldn't really be possible in a normal run (well, technically yes, but you'd need a lot of money and that'd not really be... fast)

Thus, a trick like that shouldn't be allowed in a category like No Major Glitches for obvious reasons.

I've not seen game-breaking glitches beside that one yet, such as duping or OM0, so I guess that one would currently be the only argument in favor of a No Major Glitches category (in my eyes at least).

I guess this topic can be brought up again once significant skips or glitches were found further down the line - who knows, maybe a future update breaks some stuff again? (It's R* / GSG so the chance isn't necessarily low, haha)

Romania

@hoxi I for one, gave my personal thoughts. Calling my desires childish, manipulative and missinformed and all of that is just stupid coming from you. And also, I'm not the first person who said that he wants a glitchless run on main boards, it's Andy who requested it, and we just simply agree with his idea. FYI, I do check the GTA Speedrunning Discord, and from what I have seen in the "gta3_remastered" and "gta3_remastered-help", the only people who actually give a fuck about this game and are active in those text channels, are the people from the community itself, such as leshenka, Mili, you, Powdinet and others who are actually sharing strats and talk about the best strategies for the game. I may have seen only one video from Kamiks, related to a "Crook Instapass", but that's about it.

And no, I'm not being an ass. I'm just giving my thoughts. Be cool or not cool about it, that's up to you.

@EBen You may have a point about the glitchless argument you've just made. We defintely should revisit this thread once we find more glitches in these games. And yea, I guess I did flame some other runner. My bad on that one. But just so you know, I'm speedrunning this game when I can nowadays, cuz I don't have free time. That's why I'm saying that I've grinded my ass off for that 1:31, cuz I've gone through some hard times these days, and it was hard for me to run the game.

We could, however, reconsider, and just create the "Any% NMG" category, like Mau5 proposed, over "Glitchless", and leave the "Glitchless" category out of the way, for a while.

Edited by the author 2 years ago
Pomorskie, Poland

If some tricks get patched in future updates, the community will just prepare downgraders so the tricks can still be used in runs. Not the first time the GTA community would have to deal with patches breaking speedrun tricks.

[QUOTE=Churp]And a pro argument of this, is that you can show so much of the game content that you are being provided, to the general public, and some people are interested in that sort of thing, and they also take it in consideration.[/QUOTE]

The argument about "showing off the game's content" falls flat when talking about Any%. If you want to show off the game's content, why not do All Missions? Or 100%? Any% doesn't show off the game's content nearly enough.

[QUOTE=Churp]PSA, "Glitchless" is NOT considered a "meme run" by the general public, and should ABSOLUTELY NOT be under any circumstance, placed in Category Extensions or on meme leaderboards for a game franchise.[/QUOTE]

I'll need a citation on this one. And I don't see why we should take into consideration opinions of people who've never interacted with the community in any shape or form (also didn't you say you don't care about opinions of people that don't run the game?).

[QUOTE=Churp]And don't start with the absolute bullshit assumption of me "not checking game statistics", because I do check them and take them in consideration. And from what I have seen, the statistics for the VC Remastered boards have runs for both 10 year Anniversary and The Definitive Edition game itself, whereas, the Gta 3 Remastered boards, only have runs that have been done on THE 10 YEAR ANNIVERSARY EDITION of the game. In short, more of the categories on VC Remastered have actually been ran, compared to the Gta 3 Remastered categories.[/QUOTE]

And those runs for this game are still in queue for verification? Which is a point everyone already addressed multiple times?

The whole attitude of your post just hurts your entire position, you're being an ass to everyone who has responded so far for no real reason. You won't get people to agree with you like that.

[QUOTE=Lordmau5]Which is why I proposed "No Major Glitches" instead like we have it for SA already, for example.[/QUOTE]

No Major Glitches in the same vein as SA's wouldn't fit here, since with the current SA Any% route it borders on a miracle to even finish a run. Here, there's no such problem, the run's easy.

Everyone is putting in so much effort and time into this pointless discussion, which could be spent on something more productive, like doing runs and improving your times.

Poland

First: I absolutely have no idea what you meant with the Mirror's Edge "argument", can't make it up at all.

Second: Just because a category is on the meme board/category extensions it doesn't mean it's not worth attention and isn't prestige. In my eyes, III Any% dupeless and All Missions dupeless (this one isn't even on the leaderboard!!!) are very prestige and I have respect to those that choose to run these. On the other hand you have people that say All Missions is worthless and dumb, because it's just demo version of 100%, but that still remains on the main leaderboard and will continue to be there forever.

Third: https://i.imgur.com/bE3lTLh.png

Edited by the author 2 years ago
Belarus

this entire thread is the epitome of BabyRage

Portugal

I'm not sure how this went from "I want Any% except things I don't like" to "please verify my runs you slow bastards" but it sure as hell makes me not take take this thread seriously. Instead of arguing about dumb shit, run the game and put your runs in the category extensions, that's what they were made for.

I'm locking this thread because it's just shit flinging at this point. Your points (good or bad) have been made and may be considered in the future.

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Regarding Definitive Edition Leaderboards:

There will be an embargo for speedruns of the definitive edition of 2 weeks. What this means is that the mods of the respective games will not accept any run that is completed before Nov 25th. This is both to allow everyone to actually play the game, and

2 years ago
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