This is about turbo being allowed on all PC categories.
From what i understand the arguments are about mashing is bad for your wrists therefore turbo, as well as that adding turbo makes it more accessible.
I want to dismantle both of those arguments.
If you have to mash as fast as a robot to be competitive then 1) people are not going to run it at all without turbo and 2) they are gonna fuck their wrists if they try.
the 'make it more accessible' argument is the lie that made people vote for it. there IS NO TURBO option unless you have special equipment like a controller or some macro keyboard. so you have by definition made it less accessible. you now need to 1) like turbo and 2) have access to turbo to be able to run. so most of the community is no longer interested in running.
the other argument is that we don't want dead categories - for some reason - so instead of creating the unpopular category; the popular one has been deleted.
The worst part is that people who don't even run PC are the ones who voted for this change.
Please reconsider deleting the human category.
Thanks
Turbo isn't the only factor, but this whole debate on top of other debates are why I don't want to run PC anymore hahah I would have jumped to PSX already if not for needing another piece of equipment or two. PC used to be so accessible and easy to get into. Now it's just a mess. I dunno eventually I'll just ignore SRC and run how I want. The boards were fun, now it seems like a political mess that everyone and their sister has a say on. I dunno. I'm all for inclusive options, but like Zergu says mixing everything all in one pot actually takes away from it.
oh...and let's be real. I especially don't see anyone using turbo with pc any%. there's barely mashing. if runners disagree fine, but just saying. I have seen lots of backing for split turbo/no turbo categories regarding No Slots or hundo (so the longer runs). Many of those people have said they would run both.
Getting turbo features on PC is literally the easiest thing to setup. You do not have to buy a turbo controller in order to have turbo features. You do not have to buy a macro keyboard to have turbo features. Programs like Joy2Key is free and easy to setup, with multiple profiles for different controller layouts. Steam Controller Configurations (which is what I use) is built right in and is just as easy to setup to have turbo features. So your argument that having turbo be the default for PC will make it less accessible is invalid.
TURBO DOES NOT MAKE YOU FASTER AT THE GAME. IT LITERALLY DECREASES YOUR FPS WHEN YOU ARE USING TURBO.
Giving yourself carpal tunnel by mashing as fast as possible is not a skill.
I run turbo exclusively for any game I speedrun purely because I DO have wrists/thumb pain from mashing through dialogue. I had to buy wrists and thumb supports to combat the pain from speedrunning FF7 alone. FF9 is another game I use turbo on, purely because the one and only run I did without turbo caused me significant pain for a week afterwards.
Turbo on PC is the easiest and most accessible thing to achieve. Console is completely different because you actually do have to buy special equipment in order to use turbo features. So having a separate category on Console makes perfect sense, however with PC, having turbo makes sense and can be easily identified by a selection option when submitting a run. I specifically asked Zheal to enable that feature so people can see which runs have turbo and which don't.
I also don't like the argument that because PC any% is so short its not worth using or allowing turbo. All that argument is doing is gatekeeping a community that should be open and available for anyone. This discourse of turbo use is doing nothing good for this community and you should feel bad for starting it again.
I haven't noticed less people running since turbo was allowed.
I haven't tested it yet in a run to see if my FPS drops a lot while using turbo, but I know it can/does if mashing fast, so turbo might actually lose time compared to mashing in PC runs (not 100% sure on that point though).
I personally don't see a negative to allowing it, but we'll have to see how turbo runs compare to non-turbo.
I can agree about the point on people that don't run voting for it, but then again, who says they won't run it eventually and having turbo allowed may be what causes them to run. But yeah, maybe there should be a vote from only current/former runners (or at least their vote should count for more or something compared to non-runners).
Overall though, I wouldn't say allowing turbo has killed the categories for non-turbo runners, as there's only been 1 submitted turbo run so far and many more non-turbo runs since it was allowed.
"unless you have special equipment like a controller or some macro keyboard. so you have by definition made it less accessible."
JoyToKey and Steam controller config both exist.
I literally stopped practicing FF7 PC at one point because I could feel my wrist starting to hurt after 3 days of multiple run attempts. Don't talk to me about people not wanting to run the game because of mashing. I decided to play other games that didn't involve unnecessary mashing of dialogue.
Like Dubb and Mythik said, Turbo on PC is not a barrier. You already have to download additional free programs to lock FPS. Adding one more, or using the built-in Steam controls, is trivial. I will never understand the hard-on some people have for intentionally causing unnecessary harm to their wrists for speedrunning.
Joy2Key and Steam turbo require you to play on a controller.
i play on keyboard. this is PC category.
honestly, lets just chill. no need to get uppity about this. I understand the want for turbo, but there are definitely issues with it and not having it. Both sides have valid thoughts. Zergu's not wrong, but neither are turbo users in this case. I just think people only have the facts they want to have and there's a lot getting lost in translation or ignored. Case to Case it is different and i will say i tried to deal with both steam and joy2key and they were both a pain in the ass but sort of worked. I'm going to test against FPS loss in a day or two BUT from my initial looks the fps drop IS NOT significant at all and the comments about it NOT being faster because fps drops is totally misguided. The decrease of fps on average i've encountered is 0.05-0.08. In that particular case turbo would indeed save time over the FPS drop. If i happen to notice a bigger dip as i test it more then i have no problem changing my thoughts on that, but currently Turbo mashing outweighs FPS drop. I'm also aware that each PC might be affected slightly different by turbo, but that just brings us back to the problem with running on PC in the first place, everything is situational and hardware has a big effect.
The other thing is if everyone uses different turbo are we opening another floodgate? as in each program may act somewhat different. Why don't we discuss like adult's and stop just going at people whether they want turbo or not.
and yea i know zergu was having trouble setting up proper turbo on the keyboard so any suggestions there could help move this issue along somewhat.
Also if mashing hurts your wrist's/thumbs thats fine. Never had an issue about that, but don't assume people are "wrecking" their wrists, just because they choose to mash. I've mashed 7 hour runs for the last year, never one issue. I just found a comfortable way to two finger mash that worked FOR ME. I know it won't be a thing for everyone.
You could look for an auto key clicker type program to use with keyboard for turbo.
I use a Nostro Auto Clicker that connects via USB into my laptop that works just fine when I want to use turbo while I practice FF7 and play on keyboard. The turbo is slow, the fastest it can mash is .01, so it won't get fast elevator most of the time, but its better than nothing.
My opinion has changed significantly however regarding turbo after doing 100% runs that take 18 hours. I was really worried it would destroy my hands. However, in retrospect I've had no issues at all, I just have had to learn to mash with both left and right hands, and alternate positions while doing so. Techniques to reduce strain like that can make a big difference.
i have tried hacking in turbo with random programs from the interenet but it was terrible - extremely unreliable.
if it's not possible for everyone to use a good turbo then it's not a competitive category in my opinion. whoever has the best turbo has an advantage.
i just don't wanna run in the turbo category without turbo, not really understanding why it's controversial.
Discussion is always welcome but the cries for another change are unnecessary for now. People argued for turbo, wanted a change, multiple times now in the last years. We had 2 votes about it that were in a very slight advantage of turbo but we didn't change it since imo a change needs a clear majority vote and every time we had complains from the other side in a sense of "majority wants it, why no implement?" that we had to explain too. Now was another outcry for it, we had another vote and it was a clear advantage for turbo this time, people wanted a change and we changed it. Now it's the non-turbo people that complain, obviously, despite being in a very clear minority right now.
Turbo is new now, it's there and it won't go for at least a while. Just like turbo came it can go if people feel like it was a bad idea and they'd rather mash again but we can talk about that in a few months, when people were able to try it for a while, run with it and make experiences. There is no problem separating turbo runs from non-turbo ones into another board if that is what people want then.
As said, you're more than welcome to share your opinion and experience on the matter but please be civilized and refrain from being overly aggressive in tone and don't try to "disprove peoples arguments", you can't disprove personal opinions and experiences.
My suggestion is to at least try it. Set up proper turbo for PC, try a few runs and see how it feels. Share then your experience and feedback about it and see what others say and after a while, as said, we can have another discussion about it and see how it went.
it seems no matter how many times i say "there is no turbo" nobody hears it
it's not that i wanna mash it's that there is no turbo so it's like i'm being forced to compete with robot mashing
which is obviously unfair
everyone voted for it falsely believing that turbo was somehow built into the game.
Another thing is you didn't really dismantle the "mashing is bad for your wrists therefore turbo" argument, no one is gonna try to match turbo manually.
yeah, this is the issue. why would i try to beat a turbo WR without turbo? there's no way i would bother trying.
so as soon as the WR is turbo the category is dead to me.
if that's what everyone wants, ok.
it seems like literally nobody believes that turbo and non turbo are equivalent. the 'turbo yes/no' column shows that they are not considered equivalent.
so why are they combined?
to me it's like allowing freefps in the 30 fps cate3gory, just makes it into a joke.,
if nobody can tell me how to get 15 hz turbo on a keyboard then the same argument that keeps the non-turbo psx board going should keep the non-turbo pc board going.
if we wanna be logically consistent.
btw i'm not trying to force people to mash, i think there should be a turbo category. it's just wrong for them to be combined and i can't understand why so few people are able to see that it's not fair.
worked perfectly? i tried that exact program and it worked terribly - are you playing fullscreen maybe?
also yeah it only works til you reset twice then it asks for $$$
it gave me turbo but it was incredibly unreliable, not comparable to an optimal turbo in any way. not sure why you had a better experience.
maybe you didnt test it properly, try bind it to movement and see how you move, is it jerky or is it fluid/consistent.
for me it was totally random no matter how i fiddled with the settings
