The original definition of glitchless was just "no fling, no level 5 wall clip"... it accomplished the goal of playing through the game without completely skipping levels like the fling does for 4 and 5, while still leaving some tricks in (most notably superjumps).
However, mega jumps destroy level 3 and level 5 in a similar way to how the fling does it. Here are some links to the jumps I'm referring to:
If these are to become the routes for the no fling/no clip category, that's ok with me, but I just figured it'd be worth opening up a discussion on it, and perhaps considering no fling/no clip/no mega category -- or maybe just banning these particular megas? There are a lot of useful ones that don't skip such large portions of the map. It's hard to say if using the bug in this way is just a improvement to the route, or if it warrants a different category.
Being honest, the Super Jumps would also have to fall into that category since it's essentially the same 'glitch', and then you have the issue with dash-boosting into jump pads.
Then again, super jumps simply don't break the game as they are extremely limited, same deal with dash boosting. I wouldn't be against considering megajumps a glitch, purely because they end up being able to skip entire levels.
Any%/glitched, do what you like.
It's been a couple months, though if anyone wants to pitch in their two cents about glitched/glitchless as the classification for those runs still seems like it's up in the air.
I've been looking at speedrunning this for a while, and I originally came here to the forums to see if there was a category that didn't allow supers or megas. I feel as though if you take one out, you'd have to do the same with the other, given how similar they are. I think it would also make it more friendly for new runners to get into the game (myself included) if there were a category that didn't allow super jumps.
I know I'm both late and new, so I don't mind if this post isn't really considered; just wanted to throw in my two cents.
Edit: NG+ Glitchless would be cool too. Don't know if it would split things too much for a game that doesn't seem too saturated, though.
Absolutely, any feedback on the categories is great. I know that Azorae has mentioned before that super/mega shouldn't really have a distinction between the two and that, as you say, if one were taken out you'd have to take the other.
Essentially, super and megas are the same thing.
However, I'm not too sure about removing supers just because after a little practice, they're easy enough. Megas, however, aren't.
The issue is would it be too arbitrary of a category to allow supers but not megas?
Yeah, I completely understand. Best not to clutter everything up with a category for every possible combination of glitch/semi-glitch, and since having both NG and NG+ seems practically necessary, it's hard to create a set of categories that doesn't have any arbitrary ones. Any idea on whether or not the devs think super-jumping is a glitch? That might help clear things up. It's possible that they might patch out the wall-clip, too, so that may end up changing the categorization.
I've managed to get a good deal more practice since then, and I agree that supers aren't too hard to get after a couple tries, but it still feels a little odd to judge glitch or no-glitch based on difficulty rather than mechanic.
The run I've been doing for leaderboard is NG+ Glitchless (no supers), but I'm definitely excited to get official categories ready so I can really start hitting practice with whatever rules end up applying.
Wall clipping imo clearly isn't intended, since a wall is a wall and you shouldn't be able to pass through it. And in DeadCore there are no game mechanics that allow you to go through certain [or in fact, any] walls.
Yeah, of course, my main point was about how it's weird to classify glitches based on difficulty rather than mechanic. Super and Mega are mechanically very similar, so I wouldn't separate them based off difficulty.
Maybe a little offtopic, but could you do a list of current tricks which still working in the current version of the game ? And it'd be interesting too to know and be able to see the old ones they removed with patch 1 & 2. I personally got the game recently in the Humble Bundle and i noticed some inconsistency in my jumps with the jumpads, now i know why :p. Not sure i'll ever speedrun this game¤, but it'd be nice to have these info.
About the categories, it seems there's not many people in the leaderboards (all using the Steam ones ?)... So maybe it's not so useful to care about that for now. If wanted you still can create another category without all these jump tricks ? Glitchless category is generally useful when a trick breaks the game massively, like the megajump seems to.
Edit : Btw, i don't know if it's a known trick despite it seems quite hard to do : By dashing into the edge of a block, i was boosted like the "dash jump" on curved surface.
¤Or any game btw, i like to find glitchs & stuff, but running a game seems too stressful / exhausting, i'd want to reset constantly. I tried on Love+ and after 2h30 of learning the game and training i stopped.
Still working 'glitches', which is up to your definition of a glitch:
Wallclip Dashboost Curveboost SuperJump MegaJump DashJump Wall Fling¤
Patched: Gravity Fling, Patched 1.2 Blast Abuse [rocket jumping up vertical or otherwise unscalable angles], Patched 1.1
I've watched your tutorial when i've posted the message above, but i'm not sure about all these tricks you listed. When i said a list could be interesting, i meant a list with at least some info on how to do it and the result of it (in a seperate thread maybe). At least i could note the times in your tutorial where you speak about the various tricks. But right now, i'm not sure what you mean with dashboost, curveboost and Wall Fling (with the ¤ not explained). About Dash/Curveboost isn't the same thing than the dashjump ? On a curved object, you still do a "dashjump". I may need to watch the tutorial again, but Twitch VODs are awful ^^.
Thanks btw.
Edit : I just did a little guide sketch, feel free to complete it if you've some time (i hope at least mods can edit it, users would be even better). I used the video tutorial of Tewi_TV. The guide is missing stuff about Wallclip, wall fling (it's explained at a moment but i don't understand what it is), dashjump as i don't know if it's equal to dashboost, i guess so. Not much about the blast abuse too but that's not a big issue since it's been patched a while ago.
Edit² : I don't know if it's just me but i do megajumps more consistenly when i disable the jumpad right before i jump on it. Maybe we've more frames to do it ?
Hi,
You'll have to forgive me for not checking this thread. I didn't think the DeadCore forum had any activity on it. Also, I'm a mod here now? Cool.
To contribute to the discussion about super/mega jumps -- I agree that calling the category "glitchless" and then allowing only select applications of bugs is somewhat strange. Perhaps it would be more apt to call it "Any% no mega no clip". However, it's ultimately up to the runner to decide what they want to run. Allowing super jumps but not mega jumps actually makes a lot of sense in any% when you consider the variety of tricks you're going to perform. Any% without mega is an interesting route where you have some cool skips, but you also need to pull off a few technical parts of levels "normally". Any% with mega consists of finding the first available jump pad, then doing 2 consecutive megas on it and dashing to the end of the level. I don't mean to say that using megas is inferior (in fact, all of the categories I ran used them), but it's a different run, and allowing supers but not megas (even though they're the same bug) leads to a fun run as well.
This may have been a bit rambly, but it just comes down to this: if you want to run the game unrestricted, run NG Any% or NG+ Any%. If you don't like the constant test of your 2-frame timing, run "glitchless". If you want a mix of both, run 100% (the route is not hard to learn, and the megas in it don't break the levels nearly as bad as in any%, nor does the wall clip). If you have your own set of rules you'd like to see implemented (no super and no mega? Could be cool!), then we can make a category for it on here -- after all, a single runner represents a large portion of the DeadCore community.
Also, @Harest -- I can edit some vod times in for examples of the any% glitchless and 100% versions of the wall fling. Dash jumping and dash boosting are interchangeable terms. Everything else seems accurate in that guide. Regarding mega-jump timing -- I'm not sure whether disabling an active jump pad extends the frame window for the jump. Personally, I always found it easier to do megas on inactive jump pads, but I believe that was primarily because I could set my own timing by activating it and jumping slightly after. I did try disabling active jump pads as I fell into them, but it never seemed to help me, so I gave up on it -- but if it works for you, that's great.
In case you missed it, i'm not a runner at all, i'm just enjoying the game enough to try some times on each level, and at least my first objective is to beat each dev time which seems easy enough to me. There's many videos out there to see some skips i didn't think of, etc.
And yes i totally agree with your statements. Megajump is probably frustrating for many runners so the new category is welcome. It's probably more fun to run and to watch. As i'm not a runner i'm enjoying this glitch too much and indeed i've more consistency with disabling the jumpad right before the jump. Maybe should i try on 100 / 200 jumps to get more retaliate stats but i tried for a long time yesterday and i think it was really the case, just like you seem to get them easier when they're already disabled. I put it in the guide as a note, in case some will find it easier too. Maybe should i put a "no guarantee" to not mislead anyone. You've a lot more hours on this game than me.
Demo & explanation for the Wall fling are welcome indeed. And i'll update the guide about Dashboost / DashJump then. Btw, why "fling and not "flying" ? Edit : Well, you were faster o/. And it seems like i can't modify anything now, damn ^^. I'll send a suggestion to the dev of this site for that. Edit @Tewi (Below) : Not much to add/edit so that's not a big deal, the guide is already good like that ;).
If you'd like, I can alter it, just send me a redraft of the guide you posted so I can copypaste it in [Lazy mods :O]
I was a bit put off running this game due to confusion about what my category would be as a result of what I was excluding, so I appreciate that NG+ "glitchless" (no mega, no wall clip) is a thing on this board. I agree that it's tough to clearly define the difference between manipulating the height of a jump pad boost and ¤profoundly¤ manipulating the height of a jump pad boost, but in practical terms of how it affects the route, it's a major difference.
I'll probably run and try to optimize NG+ Glitchless with as many skips as I can consistently do, but I actually have some thoughts about running a secondary route that foregoes most skips and just sticks to the designed courses. This would be a truly arbitrary distinction and probably not a good candidate for a competitive category, but what initially drew me to the game was how much fun the "intended" route was and how great it felt and looked to execute it quickly. With a game like this, I'd just as soon grind to produce an optimized playthrough of the most impressive-looking route I could find than focus on getting the best time I could. As I said, probably not a category for the leaderboards, but DeadCore inspired me to rethink what a speedrun necessarily "has" to be about, and it seems like it would be a lot of fun to work on.
Oh well. You obviously shouldn't make a new category just for me, but I'm just going to continue primarily running the game glitchless with no supers, since it's what I have the most fun with, and I'll just write a comment about it when I post the videos. Hopefully there'll be enough people running this game eventually to warrant that new category.
Again, my opinion is just that since superjumps and megajumps are fundamentally similar, if a category doesn't include one, it shouldn't include the other. Difficulty and "how much the jump skips" seem like very arbitrary separations.
